Kia EV6 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 220 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
What with the current energy price hikes in Europe and the fact that electric prices are going through the roof has anyone with a car on order decided to cancel yet?

Our solar installer has let us down, so we have lost free fuel and even at 4p average price per kW it's £5k more over 12k miles and an MOT/service with £1000 put aside for repairs etc.

When you up that to 10p, it's much harder to justify and then 20/30/40p it's over £10k cheaper to run the current car, every year. Even a new petrol lease car is £2-3k cheaper a year over 12k miles.

When you add in the mess with pre-heating, long delays, encryption oops and a number of things that are less than ideal I'm starting to debate if we should just walk away. It was crowned by a test drive where the dealers car left us stranded either with a flat 12V or zombie mode meaning the wife has zero confidence in the car now.
 

·
Super Moderator
Ordered July 21 Yacht Blue GT Line S AWD with Heat Pump Arrived 14 May 2022
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
Sorry not sure how your getting those figures.

One thing you have to take into account is you will pay zero road tax, not knowing what you paid before makes this hard to to work out any savings.

Say for example just fuel alone, Petrol costs 1.70 pounds per litre.

Say your car does an average of 60 miles to the gallon so around 12 miles per litre.

Take 1.70 pounds and divide this by 12.

Works out to be 14.16p per mile.

Take your electricity per KW, mine is 17.81p per KW

Say you get 3 miles per KW

So I currently pay less then 6p per mile compared to 14.16p per mile if I used Petrol.

Saving over 8p per mile, not if the electricity goes up this changes but the same can be said for petrol when it was nearly 2 pounds a litre and I was still paying around 6p.

I was also paying 440 pounds road tax which I now pay nothing, so take 440 pounds of electricity and I get 7333 miles that i was paying road tax, so until I go past this amount I am actually saving money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
I'm nowhere near thinking of cancelling my order. Even now the car works out better per mile.

I currently drive a Volvo V40 Diesel. It costs £0.15 per mile (and fortunate that it is £0 tax)

Taking into account my electricity is £0.27/kWh (ignoring the standing charge as I would have to pay that anyway.)

With the car having a 77kW battery and assuming 270 miles (seeing what other people have posted on here) that works out at £0.07 per mile. My electricity would need to double before it even matches what I'm paying now on mileage

I know the energy cap is due to go up. But there is hope the government might do something (though won't hold my breath)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Obviously local electricity rates and gas prices will mean different results based upon where you live. But I would guess for most places it's still a lot cheaper to travel with an electric car than gas.

Here on the West Coast of Canada I effectively end up paying 14 cents/kWh and gas is about $1.90 to $2 a litre. I've worked out that in the EV6 it costs about $3 of electricity to travel 100 km's. That same trip in our RAV4 hybrid is more like $13 to $14. If it were a gas only RAV4 then that would be more like $17 to $20.

Sure electricity rates could go up, but I think the factors that make it go up would also make gas prices go up as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Currently our electric is 28p per kWh, and that’s likely to double in October.

tax previously was £35 a year.

Lease cost is the big deal and the deposit.
The deposit would provide for £1000 a year of repairs and servicing and obviously no monthly payments for 3.5 years.

Petrol cars are sufficiently cheaper to lease that it covers petrol at £2/l and 45mpg.

Yes I know it’s not apples to apples because I’m not replacing a perfectly good car. However the fuel savings were larger than they are now and more so come October. This was what I was using to justify they payments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
That's really unlucky with your solar installer.
My company is just finishing off our install and it should be live on Monday. Octopus have just let me fix to the Go tariff for 12 months and the PV plus battery should mean I'm paying 7.5p per kwh at most for any usage. The peak rate is 40p but the solar and battery will cover that period. I'll need to to more regular night charges and avoid long charges during the day.

I don't think I'm going to cancel my order. Fortunately the UK is pretty mild so I don't actually think the preconditioning is a massive thing, just perplexing for a ground up EV. I'll see how it is for a few weeks after it's arrived and possibly order something else. I quite like the look of the megane etech and fisker ocean.
What is the "encryption oops"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
28p per kWh and it's going to double!!!! Wow, at 28p that's equivalent to 43 cents Canadian, and to double to 86 cents!!! Holy cow, I can see why you're rethinking an electric vehicle. Still even at those rates driving an electric car here would still be marginally cheaper to fuel relative to a gas vehicle and your gas prices are higher than ours, so it would still seem to be cheaper to have an electric. Though I can see there are other costs involved where it could swing either way.

In another thread someone in the state of Georgia (US) is paying Super off peak rates of 1.5 cents US per kWh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It’s really a can I justify the lease costs conversation. As it’s not salary sacrifice it’s £600 per month. The old electric prices probably saved half of that, but now the savings are so small they hardly dent it.
60p/kWh would be 20p/mile

£2.00litre and only 10MPL is the same and fuel prices have dropped significantly.

It’s sad as we started the solar piece almost 12 months back and it’s probably going to kill our EV when you put it with the other issues.

The encryption oops… Hyundai appear to have used the encryption keys from example code for their software updates. There’s a thread on it but it worries me that people who that are allowed to write control systems software.
 

·
Super Moderator
Ordered July 21 Yacht Blue GT Line S AWD with Heat Pump Arrived 14 May 2022
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
The other thing you have to remember is solar is not going to save you massive amounts and it will take around 10 to 15 plus years to recover the cost of the panels alone let alone the extra costs of an EV.

Solar panels are not a quick way of getting around the increase in energy costs if you plan to move in that time.

The benefit would be made by the person buying your home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The other thing you have to remember is solar is not going to save you massive amounts and it will take around 10 to 15 plus years to recover the cost of the panels alone let alone the extra costs of an EV.

Solar panels are not a quick way of getting around the increase in energy costs if you plan to move in that time.

The benefit would be made by the person buying your home.
I agree with that, but we had panels/battery and a solar aware charger, which was oversized by a good way. This was to allow enough export to do about15-20k miles a year. Obviously you wouldn’t see it all but it helped.

I’m not certain on cancelling, but I just can’t find anyway to justify the lease cost without the big fuel savings.

If I had access to salary sacrifice it might help, change the figures to a justifiable amount. Sadly it appears many employers are very much not interested in doing it.

Being stranded by the EV6 miles from home means if I can’t justify it somehow, then I think the Veto might be enforced.
 

·
Registered
22 G-Line RWD Yacht Blue
Joined
·
162 Posts
The other thing you have to remember is solar is not going to save you massive amounts and it will take around 10 to 15 plus years to recover the cost of the panels alone let alone the extra costs of an EV.

Solar panels are not a quick way of getting around the increase in energy costs if you plan to move in that time.

The benefit would be made by the person buying your home.
Except that if energy costs are doubling, then the amount saved by using solar is also doubling, so the payback time should be cut in half.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
What with the current energy price hikes in Europe and the fact that electric prices are going through the roof has anyone with a car on order decided to cancel yet?

Our solar installer has let us down, so we have lost free fuel and even at 4p average price per kW it's £5k more over 12k miles and an MOT/service with £1000 put aside for repairs etc.

When you up that to 10p, it's much harder to justify and then 20/30/40p it's over £10k cheaper to run the current car, every year. Even a new petrol lease car is £2-3k cheaper a year over 12k miles.

When you add in the mess with pre-heating, long delays, encryption oops and a number of things that are less than ideal I'm starting to debate if we should just walk away. It was crowned by a test drive where the dealers car left us stranded either with a flat 12V or zombie mode meaning the wife has zero confidence in the car now.
What mess ?
To a degree… not sure that one will pass the veto test.

Pretty reasonable normally as I was told I could get an F type if I wanted prior to setting on the EV.
28p per kWh and it's going to double!!!! Wow, at 28p that's equivalent to 43 cents Canadian, and to double to 86 cents!!! Holy cow, I can see why you're rethinking an electric vehicle. Still even at those rates driving an electric car here would still be marginally cheaper to fuel relative to a gas vehicle and your gas prices are higher than ours, so it would still seem to be cheaper to have an electric. Though I can see there are other costs involved where it could swing either way.

In another thread someone in the state of Georgia (US) is paying Super off peak rates of 1.5 cents US per kWh.
28p per kWh and it's going to double!!!! Wow, at 28p that's equivalent to 43 cents Canadian, and to double to 86 cents!!! Holy cow, I can see why you're rethinking an electric vehicle. Still even at those rates driving an electric car here would still be marginally cheaper to fuel relative to a gas vehicle and your gas prices are higher than ours, so it would still seem to be cheaper to have an electric. Though I can see there are other costs involved where it could swing either way.

In another thread someone in the state of Georgia (US) is paying Super off peak rates of 1.5 cents US per kWh.
I was prepared to get all pious with Monkhai but the buying it privately does change the equation , still cheaper to run at any point though I would of thought.

In the UK if your employer does salary sacrifice it’s a no brainer

Our higher rate of tax is 40 or 45%. You can take an EV and it’s guaranteed that you will only pay 2% of it’s value in tax till 2025. It’s a massive give away my EV6 is therefore saving me about £6000 a year in tax ( the tax is anything from 15 - 30% of its list price a year for ice cars) the politics of that are strange in that it sort of means lower paid employees are subsidising higher paid peeps to get new cars. Since not everyone can just cut £600 a month from their salary to get a new premium EV. Hence why in the UK the premium EV’s are everywhere

This offsets by a significant margin any closing of the gap between petrol and electrify prices
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Generally you’re spot on it’s the SS and lack of offset that’s the issue, because without it the costs don’t add up.

Pre-heating mess is the various different answers from Kia uk official parts as to wether the MY22 will or won’t get a battery preheat update. I’d spend a reasonable amount of time in winter using DC chargers on business drives, so it’s both time and cash expensive, but more so without it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Ordered July 21 Yacht Blue GT Line S AWD with Heat Pump Arrived 14 May 2022
Joined
·
3,004 Posts
Except that if energy costs are doubling, then the amount saved by using solar is also doubling, so the payback time should be cut in half.
Yes still 5 to 7 years before you break even.

The cost of solar needs to come done that you break even in 2-3 years to make it a viable option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
...In the UK if your employer does salary sacrifice it’s a no brainer...

...Since not everyone can just cut £600 a month from their salary to get a new premium EV. Hence why in the UK the premium EV’s are everywhere....
My company is doing the Salary Scrifice scheme and was quoted £680 - £700 for it, this is an immedate 'No'. Went straight to the dealer and placed my order there, as I can use a mixture of savings and in theory trade in my current car and get the same car for £180 per month. Which to me is a no brainer and signed the order then and there.

One thing to remember about the salary sacrifice - the money is take before you're taxed. Which means before your NI is taken, always keep in the back of your mind you are affecting your payments to your state pension. I know people who are fine with this and others who have decided not to do the scheme because of that reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Although as things stand right now power rates will increase by 80% to c52-55pkWh in Oct & then go up by probably another 50% again over Jan + April, it's worth remembering that over the life of your lease (3 or 4 years?), power rates are more likely to drop back. They will never go back to the "old" days of 11-14pkWh, but something lower than 28p is possible. Then consider the likelihood of electricity prices being less directly linked to gas prices. At the moment the former is being dragged up by the latter and with wholesale gas prices now 10x of a year ago, with Russia 100% going to cut off all supplies to Europe, they only have 1 way to go over the next 6 months - up further. There's a lot of pressure on the government & Ofgem to scrap the linkage & the price cap as the former doesn't make any sense given the amount of renewables in our generation mix, and the latter isn't working as intended. I think a loosening of the link between gas & electricity prices is highly likely which should result in power costs falling faster than gas prices. So the point I'm making is that over the life of your lease, power costs for any EV are likely to undercut the costs of running an ICE.

Not having solar is a blow but why not start that process again with another supplier? The blockage is not panel supply, it's the lack of labour to install them but certainly there's a shortage of batteries if you want those too.

Finally, to my mind if the running costs of an EV vs an ICE as a private buyer are finely balanced at the current elevated electricity prices, the thing that would still push me towards the EV is the pollution aspect. An ICE has no answer to that.

On the coding ooops, from 30 years in business with E Asian companies I am not in the least bit surprised. Hyundai & Kia are car makers, not software engineers. They know how to structurally engineer one of the safest cars on the road, but may they lack the in-house expertise to check source code for gaping holes. Plus the Korean senior management and a number of the senior engineers on the I5/EV6/G60 project who are from German auto makers likewise are not software specialists. Furthermore, the typical Korean management structure is very hierarchical & deferential to seniors so consequently, should a junior software engineer at Hyundai spot the same flaws as have been found, he/she will be very worried about reporting it up the management chain. My bet is that the coding flaws found here have not yet made it to the board room at Hyundai and won't until either a 3rd party hacks an I5 or EV6 to a standstill (or worse) or a regulator like the NTSA barks at them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bultark
1 - 20 of 220 Posts
Top