[hobbie2k]

I have a GT-line RWD waiting at the dealer for pickup (delayed because my wife got Covid at a family reunion). At the reunion, I was talking to my brother-in-law, a big and vocal fan of Musk and Tesla, about the EV6 and my only moderate opinion of the Model Y.

One thing he brought up multiple times was the 800v system. He is a tinkerer and builds new batteries out of old laptops, so he knows more about this than I do. But he would imply that the 800v system represents a greater risk because of the additional complexity.

While I can see the point about complexity, I also believe that the higher voltage enables a lower amperage, and I understand that high amperage is a greater risk than high voltage.

I’m not rethinking my decision. I like the EV6 better. I would just like to understand the system more and can’t find any articles that detail the E-GMP 800v system vs other 400v systems.

 

[Starxplor]

Most people will never (and probably should never) try servicing anything that touches the HV battery, 400 or 800v.

 

[hobbie2k]

Most people will never (and probably should never) try servicing anything that touches the HV battery, 400 or 800v.

That’s true, but I wasn’t referring to safety from a servicing perspective, rather from general use. Not that I think there is any great general risk with either voltage.

 

[tangey]

800V allows smaller cables in the car / allows more power to be delivered over the same cable category, which is why 800V cars can charge quicker than most 400V cars.

In terms of safety the 400V system will kill you just as quick as the 800V system if you come in contact with either !.

 

[Starxplor]

That’s true, but I wasn’t referring to safety from a servicing perspective, rather from general use. Not that I think there is any great general risk with either voltage.

I have owned a vehicle since March of 2000 with the last 7.5 years being a Prius with actual HV battery (compared to 12V car battery) and I have never come in contact with any battery or wiring in any way that could have zapped me, including jumping that first car many times (proper cables with insulated handles).

Not sure why anyone who was not trying to 'service' or 'modify' the vehicle would have this risk, and if they are working on the vehicle, they should know enough to not complete a circuit.

 

[JK-KIAEV6]

That’s true, but I wasn’t referring to safety from a servicing perspective, rather from general use. Not that I think there is any great general risk with either voltage.

To answer your question, your safe in either, do not worry, your choice of the EV6 over the Tesla Y was the right ones regardless of voltage.

The car will be looked after by trained people who have experience in whatever voltage is being applied.

Your safety will be fine.

 

[avh]

800V is where everyone is headed, it requires thinner cables which are lighter. Tesla fan boys will deny it until Tesla will implement it, after that is will be the greatest thing ever invented

As others have said either would kill you, don't mess with the high voltage systems and don't touch orange cables. The car has safety built in, the high voltage system is only energized when the car is on. There are also impact sensors and a main fuse that can de-energize the high voltage system if it needs to be serviced or in case of accident.

 

[avh]

I won't be surprised if Cybertruck will be on the 800V architecture, if not it will be a missed opportunity IMO.

 

[Lamrith]

He is just using any tidbit he can to promote Tesla is better, typical of many people loyal to a brand. Take a "weakness" and promote it as a strength.

As mentioned 400/800 both are so high on a pack level as to make any perceived safety benefit pointless. They all break down to individual cells to make that and one cell not any worse than the other. On the contrary, I have hear Tesla packs are all glued together making working on them below the sub pack level pretty much impossible...?

 

[ppheijnen]

Probably Tesla will move to 1000V or 1kV which sounds more impressive and then all of a sudden it is not dangerous anymore ;-)

The High-voltage circuit is secured and very well labeled. Normal servicing would not be an issue. Same of for electricity @home, if you are unfarmiliar, untrained you would not open the fuse box or work on the fuses of electricity entering your home. But most people feel comfortable to install a lamp...

 

[TomB985]

Interesting thread! I've never seen this discussed in the safety context before.

While I can see the point about complexity, I also believe that the higher voltage enables a lower amperage, and I understand that high amperage is a greater risk than high voltage.

Doesn't exactly work like that. It's true that an equivalent amount of power can be moved with half the current if you double the voltage. That's the principle advantage of the 800v architecture because it enables a more efficient design. None of that will matter to you if you get zapped.

Current = voltage/resistance. If you happen to touch an open circuit, the resistance is going to primarily be within your body. That's going to be the same regardless of voltage, so an 800v circuit would deliver double the current through your tender bits as a 400v circuit. Your body isn't designed as part of the HV system, so you don't benefit from the 800v architecture. It's best to avoid becoming part of this system.

800V is where everyone is headed, it requires thinner cables which are lighter. Tesla fan boys will deny it until Tesla will implement it, after that is will be the greatest thing ever invented

That's just speculation. There have been a number of manufacturers who have said otherwise, to include Tesla, Ford, VW, and others. Volkswagen stands out because their Porche/Audi group was one of the first to roll out 800v architecture in the Taycan/E-Tron GT. Kia is the only brand that is using 800v in volume models; the rest are reserving it for their luxury or performance models. That will change slightly with the 800v Silverado, but right now manufacturers are racing to the bottom to grab marketshare. As long as 400v systems are cheaper to produce, we may not see an 800v takeover of the market.

He is just using any tidbit he can to promote Tesla is better, typical of many people loyal to a brand. Take a "weakness" and promote it as a strength.

I hate that SO MUCH. I'm on my second Tesla, and I spend too much time arguing against the Tesla cult. Brand loyalty is a tool for insecure people to feel better about their purchase, and some Tesla fanatics go through mental gymnastics to keep telling themselves that. I really like my new car, but I don't need to fool myself into thinking that competing models aren't great choices. I loved my EV6 for the time that I had it.

On the contrary, I have hear Tesla packs are all glued together making working on them below the sub pack level pretty much impossible...?

That's true. The current packs are glued together and virtually impossible to service. I believe the EV6 is serviceable, but I don't know that dealers are being trained or expected to do the work. Ford is the only one I've heard that does this, but we find this out because some of their Lightning trucks have been dropping modules. Not a great start.

 

[fbov]

As long as 400v systems are cheaper to produce, we may not see an 800v takeover of the market.

I don't see a takeover, but an adaptation. Higher voltage charges faster, so expect lower voltage manufacturers to use tricks like GM did, splitting the 400v Hummer pack in half to achieve 800V in series.

 

[b-real]

I won't be surprised if Cybertruck will be on the 800V architecture, if not it will be a missed opportunity IMO.

By the time that truck finally comes out, we will be in the 3,000v category with electric cars so that can charge from 0-100 in 3 mins.

 

[Grumpapa]

We probably will never see anything beyond 800V because the higher voltage requires more insulating to prevent arcing. Thicker insulation on wires = larger motor windings, etc. I'm happy where it is.

 

[hobbie2k]

Thanks for everyone’s responses so far. So I think it’s pretty clear that either system is capable of killing if a person becomes “part of it”. But how about from a mechanical perspective? What little info I can find on the e-GMP suggests that the 800v system required additional investment and development over a 400v system.

Does this “additional development” mean a more complex system that introduces additional points of failure, whether that failure comes in the form of just a dead battery, a fire, a shock, explosion, etc. I don’t know what the physical differences are between the two systems. Is it just twice as many cells in series and the “additional development” was mostly about motors, inverters, and other components, or is there more complexity in the battery itself?

 

[protovack]

Thanks for everyone’s responses so far. So I think it’s pretty clear that either system is capable of killing if a person becomes “part of it”. But how about from a mechanical perspective? What little info I can find on the e-GMP suggests that the 800v system required additional investment and development over a 400v system.

Does this “additional development” mean a more complex system that introduces additional points of failure, whether that failure comes in the form of just a dead battery, a fire, a shock, explosion, etc. I don’t know what the physical differences are between the two systems. Is it just twice as many cells in series and the “additional development” was mostly about motors, inverters, and other components, or is there more complexity in the battery itself?

it's no more complicated. it just operates at higher voltage. all the same parts are present, the wires are just smaller, but with more insulation. so they are lighter.

 

[hobbie2k]

He is just using any tidbit he can to promote Tesla is better, typical of many people loyal to a brand. Take a "weakness" and promote it as a strength.

I certainly considered that a likely possibility. And I’m certainly guilty of doing the same thing. Like when a Tesla fan promotes OTA updates as meaning your car will always seem fresh and new, then I point out how many phones, tablets, and computers I’ve lost due to an OTA update bricking them, or slowing them, or removing useful features…

 

[Lamrith]

I certainly considered that a likely possibility. And I’m certainly guilty of doing the same thing. Like when a Tesla fan promotes OTA updates as meaning your car will always seem fresh and new, then I point out how many phones, tablets, and computers I’ve lost due to an OTA update bricking them, or slowing them, or removing useful features…

Let's not forget them removing features and changing menus/layouts.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[Lamrith]

Interesting thread! I've never seen this discussed in the safety context before.



Doesn't exactly work like that. It's true that an equivalent amount of power can be moved with half the current if you double the voltage. That's the principle advantage of the 800v architecture because it enables a more efficient design. None of that will matter to you if you get zapped.

Current = voltage/resistance. If you happen to touch an open circuit, the resistance is going to primarily be within your body. That's going to be the same regardless of voltage, so an 800v circuit would deliver double the current through your tender bits as a 400v circuit. Your body isn't designed as part of the HV system, so you don't benefit from the 800v architecture. It's best to avoid becoming part of this system.



That's just speculation. There have been a number of manufacturers who have said otherwise, to include Tesla, Ford, VW, and others. Volkswagen stands out because their Porche/Audi group was one of the first to roll out 800v architecture in the Taycan/E-Tron GT. Kia is the only brand that is using 800v in volume models; the rest are reserving it for their luxury or performance models. That will change slightly with the 800v Silverado, but right now manufacturers are racing to the bottom to grab marketshare. As long as 400v systems are cheaper to produce, we may not see an 800v takeover of the market.



I hate that SO MUCH. I'm on my second Tesla, and I spend too much time arguing against the Tesla cult. Brand loyalty is a tool for insecure people to feel better about their purchase, and some Tesla fanatics go through mental gymnastics to keep telling themselves that. I really like my new car, but I don't need to fool myself into thinking that competing models aren't great choices. I loved my EV6 for the time that I had it.



That's true. The current packs are glued together and virtually impossible to service. I believe the EV6 is serviceable, but I don't know that dealers are being trained or expected to do the work. Ford is the only one I've heard that does this, but we find this out because some of their Lightning trucks have been dropping modules. Not a great start.

Yeah many take loyalty too far and become blinded, like many things in life.

Yeah, I am a Ford fan, have 4 in driveway. I had res for lightning, but drove the MME and left underwhelmed. Then lightning ordering became a fiasco, plus big markups and then Ford jacked up price too. CYA..

Now I am happily hauling a55 around in my new EV6 GT.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[avh]

Thanks for everyone’s responses so far. So I think it’s pretty clear that either system is capable of killing if a person becomes “part of it”. But how about from a mechanical perspective? What little info I can find on the e-GMP suggests that the 800v system required additional investment and development over a 400v system.

Does this “additional development” mean a more complex system that introduces additional points of failure, whether that failure comes in the form of just a dead battery, a fire, a shock, explosion, etc. I don’t know what the physical differences are between the two systems. Is it just twice as many cells in series and the “additional development” was mostly about motors, inverters, and other components, or is there more complexity in the battery itself?

You might find this interview interesting, you will need to enable subtitles, it is in Korean with the guys that bought this thing.