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Can lower turn signals be added to US spec EV6?

10104 Views 65 Replies 26 Participants Last post by alexw, 1 d ago

evboost

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2022 (Edited by Moderator)

I feel like we got dupped with the weird chrome strips instead of the lower turn signal lights like the other markets. Does anyone know if it might be possible to buy the lower lights from another market and install them on a US car?

Also, I wonder what US DOT rule having lower turn signal lights breaks? It seems odd, I have also read that sequential turn signals are not allowed. Despite this, I saw an Audi Q4 the other day that had sequential turn signals, was this a modification or did they come that way?

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DMiller

· #2 · Apr 3, 2022

The turn signal rule eliminated the Kia lights because the rule requires the first segment to light up must be at least 2200 mm² (just over 3.4 sq inches). I've seen Mustangs have them, but their lights are much larger than the small LEDs on the Kia.

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KiaevCan

· #3 · Apr 4, 2022

Looks like we’ll also need an entire taillight replacement. This is because the vehicles equipped with amber signals behind the chrome strip have a small square at the base of the chrome strip (near the tailgate) to light up the chrome strip (acts as the starting point). Ours do not have the square cut out.

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tab4198

· #4 · Apr 5, 2022

2

Based on everything I've seen on here, it seems the North American models have different taillights like @KiaevCan mentioned. However I was looking through the shop manual and it makes it seem like the turn signal module is there (probably just an oversight though).

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KiaevCan

· #5 · Apr 6, 2022

I figure the front is easier to do. The question is how easy is it to activate it.

alance

· #6 · Apr 6, 2022

tab4198 said:
View attachment 4433

Could you provide me where to get this manual? I'd like to replace the rear brake LED on the spoiler.

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tab4198

· #7 · Apr 6, 2022

KiaevCan said:
I figure the front is easier to do. The question is how easy is it to activate it.

That's the bigger question- on the wiring diagram it appears a single wire is used for both the brake and turn signal light, makes sense since they are a shared element on the NA models. I'm curious what a Euro wiring diagram looks like, but I'm not hopeful it would be plug and play...

alance said:
Could you provide me where to get this manual? I'd like to replace the rear brake LED on the spoiler.

Kia Global Information System (KGIS) $19 for 3 day access.

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Rich99

· #8 · May 3, 2022

Seems odd that they omitted this feature in US specs. I have an Avalon Hybrid with sequential turn signals. A friend at the DOT explained to me that the requirement is that a portion of the signal must be full on/off instantly and the sequential portion can follow afterwards. That's exactly what the Avalon does and I've noticed other US vehicles with the same sequential setup (Audi, Mustang and others). It's not a deal breaker, but it's a distinctive touch for an otherwise other-worldly vehicle.

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dscoti

· #9 · May 5, 2022

Rich99 said:
Seems odd that they omitted this feature in US specs. I have an Avalon Hybrid with sequential turn signals. A friend at the DOT explained to me that the requirement is that a portion of the signal must be full on/off instantly and the sequential portion can follow afterwards. That's exactly what the Avalon does and I've noticed other US vehicles with the same sequential setup (Audi, Mustang and others). It's not a deal breaker, but it's a distinctive touch for an otherwise other-worldly vehicle.

It’s not just that, I believe there is a minimum size of the initial light/LED and the EV6 doesn’t meet that requirement.

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jamisonl

· #10 · May 6, 2022

If we can find the part number for the international model maybe we can add it later if the part is available? 🤞🏻🙏🏼

Sam_K

· #11 · May 24, 2022

I think this video of the lower turn signals in action belongs in this thread.

The only thing I'm wondering is how they will look with the US black chrome trim piece in between them on the trunk. You might have to get the middle trim piece from SK or Europe to match the lower turn signals.

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alansh42

· #12 · May 24, 2022

I'm inclined to say no. The US model just has a single wire connection from the body control ECU to each of the taillights, so it's on or off. There's no wiring for the non-US style. Even if there's output pins on the ECU for the lower turn signals, it's programmed to blink the upper light for a turn signal.

What's weird is that, as seen in the video, there's a non-animated version of the lower turn signals. They could have just locked that mode for the US.

awmustang

· #13 · May 24, 2022

Rich99 said:
Seems odd that they omitted this feature in US specs. I have an Avalon Hybrid with sequential turn signals. A friend at the DOT explained to me that the requirement is that a portion of the signal must be full on/off instantly and the sequential portion can follow afterwards. That's exactly what the Avalon does and I've noticed other US vehicles with the same sequential setup (Audi, Mustang and others). It's not a deal breaker, but it's a distinctive touch for an otherwise other-worldly vehicle.

The key is that the US law requires the portion of the turn signal that initially lights up be a certain minimum size. So the turn signal must either be huge as in the mustang coupe, where 1/3 of the turn signal (the first section to light up) satisfies the law and the other sections just go above and beyond. Or the signal can have an additional element added that turns on when the sequence starts, as Audi does. Or the whole light could turn on initially and then turn off in sequence, like the Mach E or new Corvettes.

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Cnsheets

· #14 · May 24, 2022

alansh42 said:
I'm inclined to say no. The US model just has a single wire connection from the body control ECU to each of the taillights, so it's on or off. There's no wiring for the non-US style. Even if there's output pins on the ECU for the lower turn signals, it's programmed to blink the upper light for a turn signal.

What's weird is that, as seen in the video, there's a non-animated version of the lower turn signals. They could have just locked that mode for the US.

When I had my rear trim panel off to run my dashcam, there was a couple unused plugs on the same harness that was feeding the upper turn signal/brake light. Not sure what they are for, but as you said, i'm sure it would require some type of coding even if those plugs were meant for that lower turn signal.

alexw

· #15 · May 24, 2022

alansh42 said:
I'm inclined to say no. The US model just has a single wire connection from the body control ECU to each of the taillights, so it's on or off.

If I were designing the sequential rear tail light, I'd design it to take just power, with circuitry onboard to handle the sequential illumination. As long as the sequence time is shorter than the blink period of the power signal, you could power it with either a blinking signal or a solid-on signal and expect either to work just fine.

awmustang said:
The key is that the US law requires the portion of the turn signal that initially lights up be a certain minimum size.

I think this is half the gotcha. If they lit up the entire vertical part of the hockey stick, then sequenced down from there, that might be able to satisfy the regulation. But then the sequence would go against the turn direction, which would of course be silly. Otherwise you could do the entire thin bit of the hockey stick, but then there's basically nothing to sequence. The "start" of the sequence, given the visual design, is simply too small.

The other half is that Kia was clearly cheap AF in a bunch of spots on the US spec car, for instance the missing dashcam and so forth. In the USA, since they can get away with using the same lamp for brakes and turn signal, that's one less lamp to have to spend money on.

Cnsheets said:
When I had my rear trim panel off to run my dashcam, there was a couple unused plugs on the same harness that was feeding the upper turn signal/brake light.

This is EXACTLY what i'd expect if they were plug and play compatible between regions. Was there ONE disused plug per side, or were there two?

Cnsheets said:
i'm sure it would require some type of coding even if those plugs were meant for that lower turn signal.

I'm not convinced without more digging. One possibility, especially if there's one disused plug, is that you plug the lower blinker into that, and then you do have to make some region configuration change to drive the right timing to each plug. Another possibility is that one plug is "blinker" and the USA-disused plug is "brake light only." Swap the existing lamp down to your new euro-spec blinker, and connect the disused plug to the existing brake lamp to take blinker functionality off it.

If the disused plug and the currently-used plug are physically interchangeable, I'd put money on it's plug and play. That would be a bit of an assembly nightmare though so I wouldn't be surprised if it IS coding-required.

Might have to pull off that trim panel and have a look myself with a multimeter. How'd you get in there exactly?

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alansh42

· #16 · May 24, 2022

I had a subscription to the shop manual for looking at some other things, so I looked at the wiring diagram. The US taillights have 4 pins: tail lamp, stop & turn lamp, telltale, and ground. As far as I can tell, tail lamp is for when the headlights are on, and stop/turn are used for those functions. Telltale is feedback from the stop/turn lamp; I believe US regs require a signal if the taillight is out (the "fast blinker" that meant an incandescent bulb was out). It doesn't look like there's a light sensor, it just runs the taillight signal back to the ECU so it's kinda pointless with LED taillights.

There's a panel you can pop open under the 12v outlet in the back, on the left side. Behind it is the taillight plug, along with another 6-pin plug that's for the trailer harness. I don't see any other connectors.

So I'm still going to say no: the animated turn signals would require additional wiring and/or ECU reprogramming.

It would be interesting if someone in Europe could take a look.

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Cnsheets

· #17 · May 25, 2022

alexw said:
I think this is half the gotcha. If they lit up the entire vertical part of the hockey stick, then sequenced down from there, that might be able to satisfy the regulation. But then the sequence would go against the turn direction, which would of course be silly. Otherwise you could do the entire thin bit of the hockey stick, but then there's basically nothing to sequence. The "start" of the sequence, given the visual design, is simply too small.

Light up the entire stick, then turn it of sequentially starting at the bottom thin point going out and up to the blade of the stick.

It’s the same thing I have seen on a few Audi’s, and Toyotas. It works.

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dc30307

· #18 · May 25, 2022

alexw said:
If I were designing the sequential rear tail light, I'd design it to take just power, with circuitry onboard to handle the sequential illumination.... . Was there ONE disused plug per side, or were there two?

I would also expect the sequencing to be built in to the lamp. If I had to guess, it would also have a second input to accept power from the opposite side... since in other markets, they are sequential while turning, but non sequential for hazards & trunk opening. Each lamp needs to somehow distinguish between sequence and dont' sequence. It would be interesting to compare the front units. We have them, they just don't sequence. Are they different part numbers? Are they just wired differently? Or do they just get a different signal.

alexw

· #19 · May 25, 2022

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alansh42 said:
Behind it is the taillight plug, along with another 6-pin plug that's for the trailer harness. I don't see any other connectors.

So I'm still going to say no: the animated turn signals would require additional wiring and/or ECU reprogramming.

Ahh I bet you're right then - if the mystery extra plug is JUST the towing harness, that's that.

So, the combined "stop and turn" signal certainly implies no drop-in replacement.

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But I think it's still doable at higher cost and complexity as long as the mechanical fitment works. The two outboard lamps get a "Stop & Turn" signal, but the center "high mounted stop lamp" obviously only comes on during braking. It'd take an annoying number of connectors and harnessing, but I COULD whip up a control box that consumed "Stop," "Stop & Turn L," and "Stop & Turn R" to render "Stop," "Turn L," and "Turn R" output signals. Then, you unplug the stock tail lights and plug those into the "stop" signal only, and run "Turn L"/"Turn R" to the respective new-euro-spec signal lamps. Basically, for each half, it'd look like rerouting the stock lamp to the "High mounted stop lamp" positive, then putting a suitably-sized P-MOS on the S&T positive, with gate attached to "stop." That way, the S&T line, fed to the new blinker, can only turn on if the brake lights AREN'T. Actually I think that one device (per side) covers it, so you could probably get away with just doing it with hand-modified wiring.

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Cnsheets said:
Light up the entire stick, then turn it of sequentially starting at the bottom thin point going out and up to the blade of the stick.

It’s the same thing I have seen on a few Audi’s, and Toyotas. It works.

Yep, you've convinced me - perfectly doable, and Kia's just cheap because in the USA they're allowed to be.

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alexw

· #20 · May 25, 2022

dc30307 said:
If I had to guess, it would also have a second input to accept power from the opposite side... since in other markets, they are sequential while turning, but non sequential for hazards & trunk opening. Each lamp needs to somehow distinguish between sequence and don't sequence.

Ahh good catch, and nice easy clean solution.

dc30307 said:
It would be interesting to compare the front units. We have them, they just don't sequence. Are they different part numbers? Are they just wired differently? Or do they just get a different signal.

Agreed.

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