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2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line Package 2
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Nice setup @OneFiasco. It looks like you're in Kelowna as well! I've also seen a lot of questions about winter wheels in the Facebook groups, but Facebook is awful for archiving, so it's good to post our results to a forum.

I took delivery of my EV6 GTL2 in June and immediately purchased a set of winter wheels so I had them ready to put on this winter. I went for Fast Wheels EV01+ 19x8.5 +48 offset rims with Michelin X-Ice Snow tires in 235/55R19. They fit well. Also, based on the specifications on the inside of the OEM GT2 wheel, I can confirm they are 20x8 +57 offset.

I went for 19" rims because I didn't want the look of a ridiculously huge sidewall on the wheels, but wanted the range advantage of smaller rims in winter. I was going to wait for the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5 EV winter tires, but Kal Tire told me the ETA is end-of-October for those tires, and that's just too tight a margin going into the winter season. I ended up ordering a set of Michelin X-Ice Snow winter tires in 235/55R19 from blackcircles.ca for the equivalent of $247 per tire before tax - they were on a good sale a few months ago. I had these tires on my Stinger for the past two winter seasons and they were very good. For rims I went for the Fast Wheels EV01(+) satin black, 19x8.5, +48 offset, 5x114.3mm lug nut pattern, 67.1mm center bore. These are available from wheelwiz.ca for $351.99/rim, but my local Kia dealer price matched the rims, so they brought them in for me, along with the tire pressure monitoring sensors. These wheels have the correct lug nut pattern, and the exact hub centric center bore for the EV6, so I don't have to keep track of hub rings when mounting the wheels. All in, it's a relatively expensive wheelset (~$2,652 CAD before tax), but it should suit the car well.

Dropping down 1" in wheel diameter increases EV efficiency by ~5%, and aero wheel designs (like the EV01) increases efficiency by another ~5%, so I should see a ~10% range increase with the winter wheel setup. This is of course ignoring the slightly higher rolling resistance of the winter tire tread pattern, the lower temperatures in winter causing less range overall, and the extra drag of the roof box I use during the winter. The range does not seem to be negatively effected from just the wheel swap though, as I recently did an ~830km road trip along a hilly route, averaging between 100-120kph, and the car did 5.30 km/kWh - which is very good for highway driving.

Wheel Tire Bicycle Land vehicle Car


Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Motor vehicle


Wheel Sky Tire Vehicle Window


Wheel Tire Sky Car Land vehicle
 

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Wind AWD in Central Oregon
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Less rotational mass, less unsprung weight at the minimum. Why do think the Prius and other early hybrids had small wheels? It’s for weight.
Of course.

This explains the effect very well if you're interested:
It's been a while since I watched that, but I don't think simply going an inch smaller is a guarantee. There has to be a weight savings, yes? I assume the tire diameter is being maintained so a smaller tire (19" vs 20") could weigh more. The range drops specified for the Teslas have to be due to increased weight. Unless you are comparing weights, it's just a guess, right?
 

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2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line Package 2
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It's been a while since I watched that, but I don't think simply going an inch smaller is a guarantee. There has to be a weight savings, yes? I assume the tire diameter is being maintained so a smaller tire (19" vs 20") could weigh more. The range drops specified for the Teslas have to be due to increased weight. Unless you are comparing weights, it's just a guess, right?
I'd recommend watching the video. Wheel weight has pretty much nothing to do with efficiency. Rolling resistance and aerodynamics are by far and away the most impactful variables. For the same design/style of wheel rim, the efficiency will be higher for a 19" rim than a 20" rim regardless of wheel weight.
 

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Wind AWD in Central Oregon
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I'd recommend watching the video. Wheel weight has pretty much nothing to do with efficiency. Rolling resistance and aerodynamics are by far and away the most impactful variables. For the same design/style of wheel rim, the efficiency will be higher for a 19" rim than a 20" rim regardless of wheel weight.
If wheel weight is not relevant, and tire diameter / width are the same, where is the savings? There are factors not accounted for in that argument.

I'm not saying you are wrong about potential savings, but simply going to a smaller rim isn't a guarantee. That's all I'm saying.

Edit: I re-watched the video. He does a good job of explaining how the tire design (size and rolling resistance) affects range. But his figures on range impacts from wheel size are taken from Tesla's data. I suspect there are hidden penalties within such as weight, width and rolling resistance.

And yes, I still think your wheels are cool. :cool:
 

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If wheel weight is not relevant, and tire diameter / width are the same, where is the savings? There are factors not accounted for in that argument.

I'm not saying you are wrong about potential savings, but simply going to a smaller rim isn't a guarantee. That's all I'm saying.

And yes, I still think your wheels are cool. :cool:
Watch the video from 6:22 onwards - It explains precisely where the benefit is coming from. It is almost entirely aerodynamics (more tire side wall is more aerodynamic than less tire sidewall). For the same rim design, with the same tires, and the same total diameter of the wheel system, a smaller diameter wheel rim will be significantly more efficient than a larger rim diameter, guaranteed. For example, in the video, it is shown that an 18" rim will result in 15% more range than a 20" rim on a Tesla Model 3, all other variables being equal.

Wheel weight is almost completely irrelevant to EV efficiency. At a steady speed, no wheel acceleration is taking place, therefore the weight of the wheel does not matter. Even in 'City' driving, the additional energy expenditure for accelerating a heavier wheel will be mostly recaptured when the vehicle is decelerated using regenerative breaking.

Long story short, if you want the most range out your EV, get the smallest rims that will fit around your brakes, drop a few sizes in wheel width (note: not diameter), and get a rim with an aerodynamic profile like the Fast Wheel EV01+.
 

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Wind AWD in Central Oregon
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Watch the video from 6:22 onwards - It explains precisely where the benefit is coming from. It is almost entirely aerodynamics (more tire side wall is more aerodynamic than less tire sidewall). For the same rim design, with the same tires, and the same total diameter of the wheel system, a smaller diameter wheel rim will be significantly more efficient than a larger rim diameter, guaranteed. For example, in the video, it is shown that an 18" rim will result in 15% more range than a 20" rim on a Tesla Model S, all other variables being equal.
I re-watched the video (noted in my edit). The important takeaway (which he explains but is hidden in the Tesla data) is that big wheels are the culprit. It's not only that it's a smaller rim. Those 20 and 22" wheels are very likely to be much wider tires and that's what is killing the range.
 

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I re-watched the video (noted in my edit). The important takeaway (which he explains but is hidden in the Tesla data) is that big wheels are the culprit. It's not only that it's a smaller rim. Those 20 and 22" wheels are very likely to be much wider tires and that's what is killing the range.
The OEM Tesla Model 3 front tire size is 235mm for both the 18" and 20" rims (the rears are wider for the 20" set, but that is less important aerodynamically than the front tires). The first part of the video shows that tire width does not have a large impact on aerodynamic efficiency - at least not compared to the diameter of the rim. The main culprit is rim diameter. The extra depth of external tire sidewall on a smaller rim is the majority of the reason for smaller rims being more efficient.
 

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Wind AWD in Central Oregon
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So it must be some function of the sidewall height and/or rolling resistance. I can't find a good rule of thumb on that correlation so it would probably be more useful to compare specific tires.
 

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2022 EV6 WIND AWD
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... a lot of us have done the research...
Then please share it. Not all research is fruitful.

My opinions, I keep to myself. No comments on style or appearance, only function. My goal is an educated forum readership that understands the tradeoffs inherent in modifying a range-sensitive car. You make your own choices, but you'll make better decisions the more informed you become.

And I'm really impressed by the tires, but find it odd there's not one picture of them in a tire thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
And I'm really impressed by the tires, but find it odd there's not one picture of them in a tire thread
That’s because the Nokian R5s were just released this month in North America. Your research would have surfaced this 🧐

@MasterWitsec on this same tread even mentioned this and decided to go with the X-ice due to availability.

You’re trying to cause an argument - where there isn’t one. All I know is that my range and efficiency are consistently better than the OEMs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Just to be clear, you are saying the snow tires have better range than the OEM all seasons? That's utterly nuts!
Yes - my winter set up right now is getting better range than my OEMs, despite the cooler temperatures.

Same width (255), same rim size (20s), different tires and rims.
 

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Yes - my winter set up right now is getting better range than my OEMs, despite the cooler temperatures.

Same width (255), same rim size (20s), different tires and rims.
So let's net this out:
@OneFiasco 's new setup:
  • Wider rims x8.5 (-)
  • Same rim diameter (0)
  • More open rims - less aerodynamic (-)
  • Nordic tires instead of all season (-)
  • Offset leads to setup sticking out more, worse aerodynamics (-)
  • Colder weather (-)
  • Lighter rims (?)
Almost every change in @OneFiasco 's setup should reduce range, except possibly the lesser rotational mass of the wheels and maybe the Nokian snow tires have better rolling resistance than the OEM all season tires (doubtful).

I'm having a real tough time believing that lighter rims don't improve real-world range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
So let's net this out:
@OneFiasco 's new setup:
  • Wider rims x8.5 (-)
  • Same rim diameter (0)
  • More open rims - less aerodynamic (-)
  • Nordic tires instead of all season (-)
  • Offset leads to setup sticking out more, worse aerodynamics (-)
  • Colder weather (-)
  • Lighter rims (?)
Almost every change in @OneFiasco 's setup should reduce range, except possibly the lesser rotational mass of the wheels and maybe the Nokian snow tires have better rolling resistance than the OEM all season tires (doubtful).

I'm having a real tough time believing that lighter rims don't improve real-world range.
+1000 and real world driving proves this.
 

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Yes - my winter set up right now is getting better range than my OEMs . . .
While I do not have any concrete numbers to support this point, I also think I'm getting more range with my winter setup (1" smaller diameter rims, with 20mm narrower tires, more aerodynamic rims, and snow tires). Anecdotally, in the weeks since I've put my winter tires on, the range estimate is consistently estimating more range than when I had the summer tires on despite the fact my usage of the vehicle hasn't changed at all.

Also @robby-d , as mentioned above, wheel weight has almost nothing to do with vehicle efficiency, other than edge cases (lots of stop and go traffic with hard enough stops that the regen isn't used). Fundamentally, the wheel weight only matters when accelerating the vehicle. Especially on the highway, there is hardly any acceleration being done, and even when there is, the regen will recoup this energy expenditure when decelerating. Aerodynamics is the principal variable behind range, with rolling resistance a fairly distant 2nd place.
 

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That’s because the Nokian R5s were just released this month in North America
The tires are on the wheels. If one can take a picture of a wheel, one can also take a picture of the tire that's mounted on it. Stop trolling.
Nordic tires instead of all season (-)
Perhaps, but not necessarily. Data posted in Winter Wheel thread shows Michelin X-Ice 3 performing as well as Energy Saver A/S at low temperatures. Cold will always hurt range, but running snow tires may not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The tires are on the wheels. If one can take a picture of a wheel, one can also take a picture of the tire that's mounted on it. Stop trolling.
What are you talking about? Are you even reading or aware your own replies? You asked this:

And I'm really impressed by the tires, but find it odd there's not one picture of them in a tire thread.
You are on a regional tread trying so hard to hijack the topic and the distract from the main goal.

Here is some research for you - no trolling. Seriously. I've even linked it to the section in the article for you - so you don't have waste anymore of anyones time. These tires were just released this month. And they are intended specifically for EV and Hybrids vehicles with lower resistance. The Nokian site claims they improve range, and my personal driving for the last 2 weeks proves this. I don't know why you keep harping on people's experiences who actually have winter tires.

STOP Distracting from the main point of this thread - which is to show and share winter set ups.
Either share/show us your set up, and tell us why you went with it and if you are seeing improvements or not. I am seeing improvements, and so are others.

Context is important - you are here in the Canadian section, trying to prove and point that doesn't need to be. @Administrator
 
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