[voxel]

I also like to stipulate that that happened with hybrids too a decade ago - don’t buy a hybrid, lease it because you’ll have to deal with a $10k repair I’ll after 5 years (never mind that the warranty is 8 years but facts never got in the way of a rumour).

Resale value only matter if you’re the type that changes every few years or if you have to have the latest updates/upgrades. Otherwise just be happy with what you have. You’re lucky because you got it ahead of everyone and the EV6 is a pretty advanced EV. Plus, you got it with lower interest rates and with a tax credit than if you were to purchase one now.

I argue other than Toyota.. other hybrids were meh until the last few years.. PHEVs except for Toyota's Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime are definitely problematic. Jeep's first gen PHEV (4xE) seems buggy with numerous recalls. First gen EVs are often plagued with problems and I suggest to non-early adopters to avoid them.

I'll say it again...Toyota owners are similar to Tesla owners. Both care about efficiency and drivetrain reliability over luxury.

 

[Hawk]

I love that MG is still around over there. And to think the prince of darkness making EVs. I hope there is some Lucas parts in there someplace.

Oh hell yes!

 

[vanboke]

PHEVs except for Toyota's Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime are definitely problematic.

What? I disagree with that general blanket statement.

My last car was a 2018 Kia Niro PHEV. Never had a problem with it. It was flawless from the PHEV front. Had other design issues I didn't like, but they weren't flaws in the PHEV system. I only traded it in for the EV6 because I wanted to move to an all electric car, and the time was right for me to do it. I didn't do it because there were issues with the Niro PHEV. In fact I would say that it is a fantastic PHEV, and it looks like they even fixed my biggest issues with the design in the latest version.

 

[mattun]

9 Years, 120K miles, zero problems other than noticing a small drop in range during pandemic despite charging twice a day on a Volt here. Sold me on electrics forever.

 

[voxel]

9 Years, 120K miles, zero problems other than noticing a small drop in range during pandemic despite charging twice a day on a Volt here. Sold me on electrics forever.

Doh. I forgot about grandfather of them all. I looked at one way back in 2012 but couldn't stomach the near $40K cost at the time.

Now that I think about depreciation... a Corolla at the time was low-20s and a Volt was upper-30s but you can buy either today for around the same price ($10-12K)

 

[Ian Mac]

Sellers seem a bit more optimistic in the UK.. I'm pretty sure the Air is over MSRP, the GT-LINE S has dropped, but it's done 21k (!) miles, I paid 45k for my GT-Line (like the blue one)

And.. most of these probably don't have pre-conditioning! Telsa can do what they want with pricing "if" they really have the margins, but inflation hasn't gone away yet.

 

[mattun2]

Doh. I forgot about grandfather of them all. I looked at one way back in 2012 but couldn't stomach the near $40K cost at the time.

Now that I think about depreciation... a Corolla at the time was low-20s and a Volt was upper-30s but you can buy either today for around the same price ($10-12K)

You gave up far too quickly. I was able to get my base Volt for 32K in 2014. Could have gotten it for 31K in SoCal. 22.5K after fed and state rebate. It literally paid for itself in gas and bridge toll in four years (solar at home/free charge at work, 82 mile round trip) vs. the Eclipse I was driving. I called it my spreadsheet car because for my situation it beat everything else easily for cost to own that was available at the time since my wife wouldn't let me get a 100 mile range pure EV. I love the car, but I wouldn't recommend anybody buy one used. Too much of a danger of the battery going out at this point and you'd have (sound familiar to this discussion?) at 10K repair bill minimum.

 

[Starxplor]

...
I'll say it again...Toyota owners are similar to Tesla owners. Both care about efficiency and drivetrain reliability over luxury.

As a (now) former Prius non-plug-in owner, I can confirm. I got it for my 45mile round trip to work, and the saving in gas even with 'low' efficiency 40mpg in the winter was well worth it. It was also a great stepping stone to pure EV.

 

[mattun]

This probably adds to the pressure to buy now however with the trade-ins also depreciating just as quickly. Like my Volt MAY be worth 10 grand in today's crazy town market, but it's probably 5 grand in six months if I'm lucky. If you were planning to buy this year, you might be better off selling your old car now than waiting for an end of the year clearance sale on EV6s and getting half as much.

 

[dtonn]

With EVs, it’s the “You know, replacing the battery will cost more than the whole car” rip that’s been repeated a million times by every friend of guy buying a new EV the past decade that really kills the resale value. I truly believe it’s a small chance, but ultimately you’re dealing with an unknown with the EV6. Like I THINK it’s a good long term gamble because the likelihood of repairs in general is lower, but the whammy of battery failure is always there and we don’t really have any real long term data on the fail rate of these huge new batteries. Like Kia is an excellent reliability manufacturer for cars with a couple EVs under their belt so they probably are a much safer bet for building a reliable EV than say Dodge, but you can’t assume there’s zero chance of a Bolt-like recall or the batteries fail at a high rate five years down the road. I’d just recommend the better mindset going in would be you finally have all the car you need in an EV and having the intention of driving it into the ground rather than flipping it in a couple years for the EV6 2.0 with 400m range

Though in general I am a fan of EVs, I think the battery issue is both not as bad and much worse than we think.
1. Not as bad: Battery failure in the 10 year timeframe might not be THAT common based on degradation data published about Tesla batteries and warranties that Kia and Hyundai offer. It might happen, but might not.
2. Worse than expected: I think it's not about price. It will be about whether you can get one at all. Technology marches on, and batteries degrade whether used or not. No one will be stockpiling batteries to sell as NOS (New Original Stock) in 25 years. They will be dead. So that means they have to make one near the date you need it. Who will be making batteries in this format, that the vehicle software can handle, in 10 years IF your battery fails?

I hope I am wrong.

 

[mattun]

What I saw with the Volts was there were still spatterings of new batteries available, but a lot of people would salvage them from wrecks. The tech also progressed year-by-year with some backwards compatible, then not when the next generation came out. I would guess the EV6 could easily follow a similar life. So you're "good" as long as more EV6s are totaled than have their batteries die. But the replacement cost never took a dive in price just because battery capacity/efficiency improved and they're essentially built in to be obsolete at some point no matter how well stocked your junk yard is as you were worried about. Just hug that battery warranty as tightly as you can.

 

[protovack]

rates are high, demand is down due to economic conditions. EVs are still supply constrained though. basically, if rates drop before EV supply increases, trade in values will get better. if EV supply goes up significantly before rates drop, then, yea, that depreciation is permanent, just like it always has been.

look on the bright side. if you got an EV over the last few years, even if you overpaid for it, you got to drive an ev, you saved a lot of money on gas and oil changes, etc.

it's all economics. nothing is free, but you get what you pay for. i love my ev6. yes, id like to trade up to something that has battery preconditioning. but it's really not that big a deal. i could drive this car for ten years and get tons of enjoyment without ever worrying about trade in value.

enjoy your car. it's not all about the paper. if it isn't what you want, then trade it in and don't sweat it. treat your battery right, then later on if you want to sell private party, you can prove to your buyer that the battery is in good health through your knowledgeable explanation.

 

[drdan3]

With EVs, it’s the “You know, replacing the battery will cost more than the whole car” rip that’s been repeated a million times by every friend of guy buying a new EV the past decade that really kills the resale value. I truly believe it’s a small chance, but ultimately you’re dealing with an unknown with the EV6. Like I THINK it’s a good long term gamble because the likelihood of repairs in general is lower, but the whammy of battery failure is always there and we don’t really have any real long term data on the fail rate of these huge new batteries. Like Kia is an excellent reliability manufacturer for cars with a couple EVs under their belt so they probably are a much safer bet for building a reliable EV than say Dodge, but you can’t assume there’s zero chance of a Bolt-like recall or the batteries fail at a high rate five years down the road. I’d just recommend the better mindset going in would be you finally have all the car you need in an EV and having the intention of driving it into the ground rather than flipping it in a couple years for the EV6 2.0 with 400m range

Remember that Kias have a 10 year warranty on the battery so the risk isn't great of having to incur a big loss after...five years.

 

[mattun]

Remember that Kias have a 10 year warranty on the battery so the risk isn't great of having to incur a big loss after...five years.

Does the warranty transfer?

 

[mattun]

Ouch...
As for the 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty, please note that it is transferrable. However, it’s redesignated as a 5-year/60,000-mile Kia warranty for the second owner.

Edit: I think I'm wrong on this. There's a separate EV warranty from the powertrain on the Kia site for the Soul EV that doesn't have the drop from 10/100K to 5/60K. Is the EV6 manual like that?

 

[DNGEGN2022]

.

 

[voxel]

Though in general I am a fan of EVs, I think the battery issue is both not as bad and much worse than we think.
1. Not as bad: Battery failure in the 10 year timeframe might not be THAT common based on degradation data published about Tesla batteries and warranties that Kia and Hyundai offer. It might happen, but might not.
2. Worse than expected: I think it's not about price. It will be about whether you can get one at all. Technology marches on, and batteries degrade whether used or not. No one will be stockpiling batteries to sell as NOS (New Original Stock) in 25 years. They will be dead. So that means they have to make one near the date you need it. Who will be making batteries in this format, that the vehicle software can handle, in 10 years IF your battery fails?

I hope I am wrong.

Failure is only one problem - degradation to 75% is bad enough that you are losing a pile of range.

If you follow EVs.. you will know that Tesla Model S from 2012-2014 are now out of warranty and it's very common for the battery to be severely degraded and you will hear dozens of stories about battery failures around the 100K-120K mark. That's why there are companies who build refurbished packs like wk057 (057 Technology) for Model Ss. Of course the packs aren't cheap - around $25K I think.

Also.. Kias tradtionally had poor depreciation. If you've been an owner long enough it's just part of ownership. Toyota owners are smug about their resale values but Kias until maybe the Telluride... had crap depreciation and much of it was due to the GDI engines that drank oil and seized (and also audio system failures which are only warranted for 36K miles - I had one fail at 35K then again at 100K).

 

[mattun]

So I was considering a K5 for my son and an EV6 for myself. Does anybody think it would be possible/legal to “discount” a used 2022 EV6 to exactly 25,000 and “market adjust” whatever the discount was onto to K5 to get the 4K rebate in 2024 (EV needs to be two years old)?

 

[Bkaklinv]

So I was considering a K5 for my son and an EV6 for myself. Does anybody think it would be possible/legal to “discount” a used 2022 EV6 to exactly 25,000 and “market adjust” whatever the discount was onto to K5 to get the 4K rebate in 2024 (EV needs to be two years old)?

Doubt you'll find a dealership that will play ball on that field..it's "brushing right up against" tax fraud...

Anytime a vehicle transfers at significantly reduced value it's gets flagged in my state for sales tax fraud...and they do follow up.

 

[Unobtanium]

So I was considering a K5 for my son and an EV6 for myself. Does anybody think it would be possible/legal to “discount” a used 2022 EV6 to exactly 25,000 and “market adjust” whatever the discount was onto to K5 to get the 4K rebate in 2024 (EV needs to be two years old)?

No, and a dealer wouldn't risk that.