[Unobtanium]

Failure is only one problem - degradation to 75% is bad enough that you are losing a pile of range.

If you follow EVs.. you will know that Tesla Model S from 2012-2014 are now out of warranty and it's very common for the battery to be severely degraded and you will hear dozens of stories about battery failures around the 100K-120K mark. That's why there are companies who build refurbished packs like wk057 (057 Technology) for Model Ss. Of course the packs aren't cheap - around $25K I think.

View attachment 11401


Also.. Kias tradtionally had poor depreciation. If you've been an owner long enough it's just part of ownership. Toyota owners are smug about their resale values but Kias until maybe the Telluride... had crap depreciation and much of it was due to the GDI engines that drank oil and seized (and also audio system failures which are only warranted for 36K miles - I had one fail at 35K then again at 100K).

This is why you get a 150K+ mile warranty that specifies degradation acceptance.

Also, Tesla makes trash cars and plays loose and fast with literally everything. There is a reason 2012-2014 Model S have issues.

Tesla Model S battery faults were known issue inside automaker, report says

The government has reportedly opened a safety investigation into the issue after leaked emails allegedly confirm Tesla was aware of a battery cooling issue.

www.cnet.com

2012-2014 Volt's don't.

2012 Chevy Volt Maintains 100% Battery Capacity After 300,000 Miles

A Chevy Volt owner claims to have covered about one-third of the 300,000 miles using just electricity, yet the Volt’s battery remains at its full capacity.

ngtnews.com

 

[protovack]

not sure why this morphed into talking about battery capacity loss, as that has nothing to do with the current drop in used ev values. good battery care can give 90 percent capacity retention after ten years, and even much longer. it's all about the economy and interest rates... overall demand has been killed off. demand goes down, prices go down. cars depreciate. a little more than you'd expect right now, due to certain factors, yes.

you can't time the stock market. you also can't guess what the exact right time will be to buy or sell a car.

you should never ever buy a car hoping to receive back what you paid for it. because you in all likelihood will not. the last couple years were an aberration.

now, there is an argument to be made that EVs in fact should not depreciate as much as gas cars since with proper battery care can be expected to out live a gas power train while costing less overall.

but most people don't understand that yet. plus even if they did, interest rates still suck.

 

[mattun]

Sorry, I wish you were right about the battery being nigh vulnerable but the realistic threat of a $28k repair bill after you hit 100k miles would hurt the value of any vehicle. The battery losing range/becoming a dead donkey is the #1 reason EVs drop in value like a luxury vehicle. The 100k warranty transferring is GREAT for low mileage EV6s, but seriously a couple years down the road, how much would you pay for a used one with that cloud over its head when you could get a brand new one with the federal rebate, likely better specs, and any bugs remaining worked out? I’m not even sure how you can prove to your buyer that you’ve been providing proper battery care. I spent a couple days toying with getting a used low mileage Volt and I can assure you that it was a PITA asking the dealers to send me photos of the historic range trying figure out if it was dropping or if they just didn’t charge it much and drove on gas. Did you see the anecdotal thread here about the guy freaking out about his EV6 dramatically dropping in range and everybody telling him it just was external factors and the repairman wouldn’t find anything? If there’s no way to rule out battery issues on a brand new EV6, how will you on one with 100k miles? I just honestly feel you should buy any EV with the intention of driving it into the ground, not flipping it once you’ve racked up a bunch of miles. Not that that’s a bad thing and the EV6 is a very good vehicle to go down that road, it’s just there’s no stockpile of replacement batteries waiting to go on sale, so when the battery goes so does the vehicle

 

[KiaevCan]

Doesn’t the US have Recurrent? Would that help display SOH?

 

[avh]

Doesn’t the US have Recurrent? Would that help display SOH?

SOH is reported by the BMS and can be checked with a car scanner.

 

[KiaevCan]

SOH is reported by the BMS and can be checked with a car scanner.

So, then what's the point of Recurrent?

 

[Hawk]

SOH is reported by the BMS and can be checked with a car scanner.

This ^^^^^^^.
Look, people who are hesitant to buy a used BEV in spite of the fact that the BMS reports 95% to 100% capacity aren't cerebral or potential buyers. They will pay much more money for a new one to have peace of mind. To each his/her own.

 

[Bkaklinv]

Wish you could get a SOH on an ICEV by plugging in a reader!

 

[avh]

For ICE you can get a compression test, the transmission wear is harder to diagnose though.

 

[Bkaklinv]

For ICE you can get a compression test, the transmission wear is harder to diagnose though.

Compression test is a bit more involved and can miss a lot...and the tranny is a more likely failure point in modern ICEV...

 

[Light Side]

Though in general I am a fan of EVs, I think the battery issue is both not as bad and much worse than we think.
1. Not as bad: Battery failure in the 10 year timeframe might not be THAT common based on degradation data published about Tesla batteries and warranties that Kia and Hyundai offer. It might happen, but might not.
2. Worse than expected: I think it's not about price. It will be about whether you can get one at all. Technology marches on, and batteries degrade whether used or not. No one will be stockpiling batteries to sell as NOS (New Original Stock) in 25 years. They will be dead. So that means they have to make one near the date you need it. Who will be making batteries in this format, that the vehicle software can handle, in 10 years IF your battery fails?

I hope I am wrong.

One really cool thing about the Kia battery is that it’s extremely mechanically serviceable with just dozens of larger cells all bolted together and therefore upgradable. Very unlike a Tesla battery pack which is full of glue and thousands of small cells.

here’s a very good deep dive into our battery packs:

 

[Matt68]

This is why you get a 150K+ mile warranty that specifies degradation acceptance.

Any pointers on who offers this for the EV6?

 

[Ian Mac]

SOH is reported by the BMS and can be checked with a car scanner.

The SoH via the BMS is inaccurate due to various ways that manufacturers hide degradation for the first couple of years. Bjorn has covered the subject in a couple of videos and shows ways to work out degradation manually. If selling the car, order a certification kit from Home - AVILOO [EN]

 

[Unobtanium]

Any pointers on who offers this for the EV6?

CNA is the best I know of, aside from dealers that offer lifetime through themselves.

 

[Wiley]

Not to long ago I could have traded in my EV6 Wind/AWD/Tech for MSRP ($53,000) with 5000 miles on it. Now Carvana is offering $40,000, local dealers are lowballing claiming they are selling for $40-45k at auctions and won’t go a penny over that. Did Elon just destroy EV values with his Tesla price drops or an I missing something. May be silly of me to be so concerned….

Just went on Kelly Blue Book to see trade in value, it was $52,800, on my 2022 EV6 Wind RWD, 7500 ODM. KBB needs to change ... I went to local Kia dealer in Pittsburgh ,Pa to trade towards a 2023 EV6 GT RWD. Dealer offered $40.000 same story!

 

[FrostByt3]

People are starting to see why many of us kept saying paying a markup, even if you have the money, is a losing battle.

People are starting to find the actual value of these cars. Yes, I love my car. No, I don't think my car is worth more today than it was yesterday. Cars are a depreciating asset—especially with new tech. Remember when NAV first came out?

I laff at all the for sale ads listing cars with barely any miles with people putting up "decided against it" or "not my style," etc.. all because they are underwater and thought they could flip.

 

[MichaelD]

Not to long ago I could have traded in my EV6 Wind/AWD/Tech for MSRP ($53,000) with 5000 miles on it. Now Carvana is offering $40,000, local dealers are lowballing claiming they are selling for $40-45k at auctions and won’t go a penny over that. Did Elon just destroy EV values with his Tesla price drops or an I missing something. May be silly of me to be so concerned….

The drop started well before Tesla's move. I barely got out of mine in time for my Rivian delivery. The market has been plummeting for several months now.

 

[voxel]

Just went on Kelly Blue Book to see trade in value, it was $52,800, on my 2022 EV6 Wind RWD, 7500 ODM. KBB needs to change ... I went to local Kia dealer in Pittsburgh ,Pa to trade towards a 2023 EV6 GT RWD. Dealer offered $40.000 same story!

KBB is useless. Completely ignore it. It's months behind.

$40K is close to wholesale price.

If you want to see more evidence of price collapse... look at 2021/2022 Model Ss that used to be upper 80s a few months ago. A friend is looking at buying one (he had one previously).

 

[Spikey732]

Wh

Not to long ago I could have traded in my EV6 Wind/AWD/Tech for MSRP ($53,000) with 5000 miles on it. Now Carvana is offering $40,000, local dealers are lowballing claiming they are selling for $40-45k at auctions and won’t go a penny over that. Did Elon just destroy EV values with his Tesla price drops or an I missing something. May be silly of me to be so concerned….

y are you selling

 

[Insideoutclaeys]

Telluride SX-P-X-PRO. I can get it for MSRP, + their interior/exterior protection thing..( which is the markup in my mind) @ $1500

and against my better judgment,I am beginning to consider the model Y.The price drop is great, but now they softened up the suspension on the new ones.

Thats just “one” of its shortcomings.