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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just completed a painful 3,000 mile road trip in our all-electric Kia EV6. In this video I’ll share my experiences with charging, including those of broken chargers and having to wait, I’ll show you how the car performed with range and efficiency in extreme heat, and reveal if our worst fear of running out of battery and getting stranded by the side of the road, ever came true!

 

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We just completed a painful 3,000 mile road trip in our all-electric Kia EV6. In this video I’ll share my experiences with charging, including those of broken chargers and having to wait, I’ll show you how the car performed with range and efficiency in extreme heat, and reveal if our worst fear of running out of battery and getting stranded by the side of the road, ever came true!

Thanks for your continued contributions! Not planning any road trips, but good to know what I'd be in store for. In fact, all my charging thus far has been at my apartment (Chargepoint).

Added bonus: passenger pup!! The "activities while waiting to charge" was adorable.
 

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2023 Kia EV6 Wind RWD reservation
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I just watched the video and left several comments about it (on YouTube as ArtiePenguin1).

To summarize, the main things to watch are speed and elevation gain. Anything over 70-72 MPH will have large range decreases due to air resistance. Do not rely on the range estimator (the "GOM", guess-o-meter) as it is far too conservative. You don't need to reduce A/C usage at all since it only pulls 1-2 kW after the car has cooled down. That's only a maximum of 2% battery power per hour. Kia and Hyundai's range estimation algorithm doesn't seem to distinguish A/C usage from more energy intensive resistive heater usage (in cars without a heat pump).

Also, you should be comfortable arriving at chargers with 10% battery in good conditions (no strong winds or winter weather). Like I've said on a bunch of other threads, you shouldn't use the in-car navigation at all, just plug in your phone and use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. ABRP even has apps for CarPlay & Android Auto.
I do agree about your complaints on EA's reliability. Most of the issue is with ABB chargers which are out here in the West. They don't do well in temperatures over 40°C (104°F).
 

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2023 Kia EV6 Wind RWD reservation
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He was told in several comments on his previous roadtrip videos how to adjust ABRP and how the GOM is not omni all seeing his future driving pattern.

I guess he found out that negative videos get more views on YouTube... IMHO his video is clickbait
Yeah, ABRP needs significant adjustment in the settings because the EV6 is only an alpha model in their software consumption algorithm since there isn't much OBD2 data from EV6 owners. ABRP also defaults to 5% battery degradation, which isn't present on brand new cars. I would also round up the default consumption at 65 MPH from 3.27 mi/kWh to 3.0 mi/kWh.

I'd agree that his videos are borderline clickbait. At the very least, they are often sensational. Over half of all EV6/Ioniq 5 videos I've found on YouTube are like that. Usually it's someone complaining about the charging speed when we can't see any OBD2 data like battery temperature.

I really hate the videos that focus so much on the "GOM." It shouldn't be used at all other than a very rough estimate of range. "Range tests" using purely the GOM are completely worthless. "I used 40 miles of range but actually went 60 miles" means nothing without further data. I wish Hyundai/Kia would have made the range estimator more like the Bolt EV. For all the hate and shortcomings the Bolt EV has, its range estimator is one of the best. It gives both minimum and maximum estimated ranges in addition to the main average. It also shows a trend bar so drivers can know if they are trending up or down compared to the average. At the very least, other manufacturers should show a trend line next to the range estimate.
 

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Yeah, ABRP needs significant adjustment in the settings because the EV6 is only an alpha model in their software consumption algorithm since there isn't much OBD2 data from EV6 owners. ABRP also defaults to 5% battery degradation, which isn't present on brand new cars. I would also round up the default consumption at 65 MPH from 3.27 mi/kWh to 3.0 mi/kWh.

I'd agree that his videos are borderline clickbait. At the very least, they are often sensational. Over half of all EV6/Ioniq 5 videos I've found on YouTube are like that. Usually it's someone complaining about the charging speed when we can't see any OBD2 data like battery temperature.

I really hate the videos that focus so much on the "GOM." It shouldn't be used at all other than a very rough estimate of range. "Range tests" using purely the GOM are completely worthless. "I used 40 miles of range but actually went 60 miles" means nothing without further data. I wish Hyundai/Kia would have made the range estimator more like the Bolt EV. For all the hate and shortcomings the Bolt EV has, its range estimator is one of the best. It gives both minimum and maximum estimated ranges in addition to the main average. It also shows a trend bar so drivers can know if they are trending up or down compared to the average. At the very least, other manufacturers should show a trend line next to the range estimate.
All of this. Borderline clickbait for sure, but just in the titles. That said, an attention grabbing title is kind of needed to cut through the noise. The content itself is thorough, filled with stats, and true to his personality.

I truly hope the GoM improves over time as well.
 

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I wish I could change the GOM to a straight battery percentage. Over time, you begin to know your car well and can judge better on how much % to get to certain places. Kia's software prowess is definitely its biggest weakness. The Tesla GOM in their navigation takes into account elevation, wind, and air density etc and has been within 5% of all of my travels. I think they need to go buy a company like ABRP and integrate them directly into their software ASAP. This is the one area where I feel they need the most improvement to win over the ones with range anxiety.
 

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Is anyone using OBD2 adapter for ABRP live data? I’m looking to add this when my EV6 arrives and curious of a good and nicely priced OBD2. Thoughts?
I tried it but don’t think it was useful. I did a 6,000 mile trip and started out using ABRP with an OBD2 adapter. However, the ABRP app in Apple CarPlay doesn’t display any of the additional information available with the OBD2 adapter. I think you would have to open the ABRP app on the phone to see this information. It may be reflected in the estimated range displayed but you would have to cross reference to the phone to know for sure. I also found the app in CarPlay was laggy and crashed frequently. The maps are not too impressive either. I switched to PlugShare on day 3 and never had an issue. In PlugShare I lowered the estimated range for my RWD EV6 and it adapted by providing charge stops that fit that range. PlugShare also allows you to display your route in Apple Maps or Google Maps.
 

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I've done a 1000 mile road trip and would say that knowledge of how high speeds/air conditioner use and elevation effect range is very important to success. Equally important are using both plugshare and the EA app to see how a particular charging station is in terms of reliability. Lastly be prepared to change your speed if you get it wrong.
Just my opinions
 

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I took a 1000 mile trip in a full sized Nissan Titan and found it to be relatively painful. The truck recommended premium fuel and as I was driving it near the southwest Texas/Mexico border, finding premium fuel was advantageous, at best. I found myself having to fill up with questionable gas for a few hundred miles. I can't imagine what kind of possible damage took place by using substandard fuel. At least with an EV, electricity is electricity. The infrastructure will only get better once we get the fossil fuel stooges to stop trying to stymie the improvements to the infrastructure.
 

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I wish I could change the GOM to a straight battery percentage.
But then you'd have to do some math to get to miles...

I think we all know that the GOM isn't guessing, it's using an algorithm and sensor data. We're just in the dark about what it uses and how - inscrutable, not unknowable. I think Mahesh's commentary, when matched up to the elevation profile, gives some insight. Remember, he arrives with 29 miles and 16% remaining. Would AC have used 12kWh?

The elevation gain occurs in three phases:
  • ~2/3 of it, over 4,000 ft., occurs in the first ~40% of the trip.
  • Then it flattens out for the next 50%,
  • then rises steeply in the last 10%.
I will assume only that the GOM algorithms use efficiency in the recent past to predict range in the near future.

During Phase 1, the 4,000 ft. climb, Mahesh reports a much larger drop in range than miles traveled. He's aware of the heat (108F) and speed (75 mph) but not elevation (or GOM algorithm). He sees a trend in range reduction, predicting they will not make it, leaving them stranded. He considers his options, lower speed and reduced AC load. He doesn't know what the GOM will do next.

The GOM can't tell if you're towing a trailer or climbing a hill, or when you crest that hill. It only knows efficiency, mi/kWh, and available charge remaining: efficiency x charge available = range (less any distance/charge buffer) It's at its worst when efficiency changes radically, like cresting the top of a really long hill.

Phase II: By the time Mahesh compensates, they've reached the undulating section in the middle with little net elevation change. GOM accuracy is at its worst, so he responds by dropping speed, then dropping AC set point, eventually going down to fan-only in 108F sun. (My Irish blood would never permit me to do this.)

GOM is now calibrated to low-efficiency hill climbing, so way short of true range, but as elevation remains fairly constant, efficiency rises, and with it, and GOM range stops falling relative to miles traveled. It's not possible to separate what Mahesh did from the GOM algorithm to increase predicted range.

Phase III is a last steep rise, but we know they arrived with 16% charge and GOM of 29 miles. The question is how much energy was saved by killing AC, compared with miles gained by GOM recalibration over the last half of the trip. (No idea why Mahesh didn't use the infotainment energy display, which partitions range with and without AC, reporting actual AC power consumption.)

That said, I cannot fault Mahesh for his actions; he has his priorities right. This trip is evidence he's on the same learning curve as the rest of us, and willing to suffer a bit of discomfort for our benefit.
 

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But then you'd have to do some math to get to miles...

I think we all know that the GOM isn't guessing, it's using an algorithm and sensor data. We're just in the dark about what it uses and how - inscrutable, not unknowable. I think Mahesh's commentary, when matched up to the elevation profile, gives some insight. Remember, he arrives with 29 miles and 16% remaining. Would AC have used 12kWh?

The elevation gain occurs in three phases:
  • ~2/3 of it, over 4,000 ft., occurs in the first ~40% of the trip.
  • Then it flattens out for the next 50%,
  • then rises steeply in the last 10%.
I will assume only that the GOM algorithms use efficiency in the recent past to predict range in the near future.

During Phase 1, the 4,000 ft. climb, Mahesh reports a much larger drop in range than miles traveled. He's aware of the heat (108F) and speed (75 mph) but not elevation (or GOM algorithm). He sees a trend in range reduction, predicting they will not make it, leaving them stranded. He considers his options, lower speed and reduced AC load. He doesn't know what the GOM will do next.

The GOM can't tell if you're towing a trailer or climbing a hill, or when you crest that hill. It only knows efficiency, mi/kWh, and available charge remaining: efficiency x charge available = range (less any distance/charge buffer) It's at its worst when efficiency changes radically, like cresting the top of a really long hill.

Phase II: By the time Mahesh compensates, they've reached the undulating section in the middle with little net elevation change. GOM accuracy is at its worst, so he responds by dropping speed, then dropping AC set point, eventually going down to fan-only in 108F sun. (My Irish blood would never permit me to do this.)

GOM is now calibrated to low-efficiency hill climbing, so way short of true range, but as elevation remains fairly constant, efficiency rises, and with it, and GOM range stops falling relative to miles traveled. It's not possible to separate what Mahesh did from the GOM algorithm to increase predicted range.

Phase III is a last steep rise, but we know they arrived with 16% charge and GOM of 29 miles. The question is how much energy was saved by killing AC, compared with miles gained by GOM recalibration over the last half of the trip. (No idea why Mahesh didn't use the infotainment energy display, which partitions range with and without AC, reporting actual AC power consumption.)

That said, I cannot fault Mahesh for his actions; he has his priorities right. This trip is evidence he's on the same learning curve as the rest of us, and willing to suffer a bit of discomfort for our benefit.
This is some A+ work
 

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Is anyone using OBD2 adapter for ABRP live data? I’m looking to add this when my EV6 arrives and curious of a good and nicely priced OBD2. Thoughts?
I use an OBD2 adapter with ABRP live data/premium subscription. It is pretty damn accurate with its estimates. IF it ends up being off, I almost always arrive with more battery than the original estimate because I had to drive slower due to traffic or something. It also updates in real time and will reroute me if my usage changes dramatically.
 

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You don't need to reduce A/C usage at all since it only pulls 1-2 kW after the car has cooled down.
For me it uses 0.43 kw when fully cooled, so yeah, it really doesn't matter. Especially when it does load faster than the others. I'd rather be comfy than "efficient".

Is anyone using OBD2 adapter for ABRP live data? I’m looking to add this when my EV6 arrives and curious of a good and nicely priced OBD2. Thoughts?
I'm using one, a OBDLink CX as that's recommended on the ABRP website. That said, it doesn't support as many other features than ABPR so it's really a matter of getting the one you want/need for the thing you want/need it for.

I tried it but don’t think it was useful. I did a 6,000 mile trip and started out using ABRP with an OBD2 adapter. However, the ABRP app in Apple CarPlay doesn’t display any of the additional information available with the OBD2 adapter.
What OBD2adapter did you use? Did you make sure it was supported by the ABRP? What info did you miss/wanted to see? If the battery info etc is the main reason for it I'd guess you'd be better off with another app rather than ABRP, they don't really care to show the info but they use it in the background.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
But then you'd have to do some math to get to miles...

I think we all know that the GOM isn't guessing, it's using an algorithm and sensor data. We're just in the dark about what it uses and how - inscrutable, not unknowable. I think Mahesh's commentary, when matched up to the elevation profile, gives some insight. Remember, he arrives with 29 miles and 16% remaining. Would AC have used 12kWh?

The elevation gain occurs in three phases:
  • ~2/3 of it, over 4,000 ft., occurs in the first ~40% of the trip.
  • Then it flattens out for the next 50%,
  • then rises steeply in the last 10%.
I will assume only that the GOM algorithms use efficiency in the recent past to predict range in the near future.

During Phase 1, the 4,000 ft. climb, Mahesh reports a much larger drop in range than miles traveled. He's aware of the heat (108F) and speed (75 mph) but not elevation (or GOM algorithm). He sees a trend in range reduction, predicting they will not make it, leaving them stranded. He considers his options, lower speed and reduced AC load. He doesn't know what the GOM will do next.

The GOM can't tell if you're towing a trailer or climbing a hill, or when you crest that hill. It only knows efficiency, mi/kWh, and available charge remaining: efficiency x charge available = range (less any distance/charge buffer) It's at its worst when efficiency changes radically, like cresting the top of a really long hill.

Phase II: By the time Mahesh compensates, they've reached the undulating section in the middle with little net elevation change. GOM accuracy is at its worst, so he responds by dropping speed, then dropping AC set point, eventually going down to fan-only in 108F sun. (My Irish blood would never permit me to do this.)

GOM is now calibrated to low-efficiency hill climbing, so way short of true range, but as elevation remains fairly constant, efficiency rises, and with it, and GOM range stops falling relative to miles traveled. It's not possible to separate what Mahesh did from the GOM algorithm to increase predicted range.

Phase III is a last steep rise, but we know they arrived with 16% charge and GOM of 29 miles. The question is how much energy was saved by killing AC, compared with miles gained by GOM recalibration over the last half of the trip. (No idea why Mahesh didn't use the infotainment energy display, which partitions range with and without AC, reporting actual AC power consumption.)

That said, I cannot fault Mahesh for his actions; he has his priorities right. This trip is evidence he's on the same learning curve as the rest of us, and willing to suffer a bit of discomfort for our benefit.
Wow! Thank you for that detailed analysis!
 

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knowledge of how high speeds/air conditioner use and elevation effect range is very important to success.
The question is how much energy was saved by killing AC
Everyone, please understand that A/C usage is negligible in how it actually affects the range. I know it may not seem that way with the GOM's range algorithm but A/C uses little energy once the car is cooled down. Only 1-2 kW max and that's on the high side for estimation purposes. That comes out to only around 2% battery charge per hour running the A/C. You do not need to turn the A/C off if you're concerned about range. Resistive heating is a different story.

I wish I could change the GOM to a straight battery percentage.
Unfortunately, there's no way to do that completely but fortunately there's a small battery percentage icon in the bottom left of the instrument cluster shown at all times. You'll have to rely on that primarily. Like I said earlier, I wish the car would show a trend line next to the range like in the Bolt EV so one can know if they are trending above or below average energy consumption and thus projected range.
 

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The app, Car Scanner, with paid option, very inexpensive, with an OBDLink CX can give you a lot of the info you’re looking for in real-time. See any of Bjorn’s videos for what you can expect.
 
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