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Invoking the Lemon Law

2559 Views 15 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Mr. Wonderful, 11 d ago

Undsputed

Discussion Starter · 7 mo ago

Hello,

I'm curious if anyone here has gone through the lemon law process with their EV6 in the United States? I realize state law may vary, but the idea is probably pretty similar across states. How did you start the process? How did Kia respond and how quickly? Interested in hearing some experiences.

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Bkaklinv

· #2 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

Requirments do, indeed, vary by state.

Start by carefully reviewing the lemon law applicable in your jurisdiction to ensure that you are keeping the required records

In my state, before you can file with the state you have to document one of several possible qualifying issues, THEN you have to notify the MANUFACTURER, in writing by certified mail in order for the manufacturer to have the opportunity to have the issue(s) corrected.

It's not a short, convenient or easy process.

"If the manufacturer has failed to correct one or more nonconformities within a reasonable number of attempts but does not provide a refund or a replacement vehicle, consumers may invoke their rights through arbitration. Depending on the circumstances, a consumer may go through either one or two arbitration programs."

If, after the one or two arbitration rounds you remain dissatisfied you can take it to the States arbitration board.

Translation...you will have been messing around with this for 12-18 months before it gets resolved. That's why most consumers end up trading the vehicle instead of trying to lemon law it. Who can manage working around a $500-$800 a month non functioning car for 12-18 months "hoping" for a manufacturer buyback?

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Undsputed

Discussion Starter · #3 · 7 mo ago

Bkaklinv said:
Requirents do, indeed, vary by state.

Start by carefully reviewing the lemon law applicable in your jurisdiction to ensure that you are keeping the required records

In my state, before you can file with the state you have to document one of several possible qualifying issues, THEN you have to notify the MANUFACTURER, in writing by certified mail in order for the manufacturer to have the opportunity to have the issue(s) corrected.

It's not a short, convenient or easy process.

"If the manufacturer has failed to correct one or more nonconformities within a reasonable number of attempts but does not provide a refund or a replacement vehicle, consumers may invoke their rights through arbitration. Depending on the circumstances, a consumer may go through either one or two arbitration programs."

If, after the one or two arbitration rounds you remain dissatisfied you can take it to the States arbitration board.

Translation...you will have been messing around with this for 12-18 months before it gets resolved. That's why most consumers end up trading the vehicle instead of trying to lemon law it. Who can manage working around a $500-$800 a month non functioning car for 12-18 months "hoping" for a manufacturer buyback?

You raise some great points there. I will initiate steps on it to keep my options open, but you are right in that it may move quite slow or not at all. It may depend if Kia is acting in good faith. Depends on the severity of the issue too since you can't get much for trade-in if the car doesn't move then you have to eat thousands out of pocket in losses.

Soullancer

· #4 · 7 mo ago

What is the issue that is causing you to consider the lemon law?

dscoti

· #5 · 7 mo ago (Edited)

IMO, humble or not 🤣, @Undsputed should have posted this in his original post. Explains more than he does here.
Admin’s: Maybe merge this under the original?

www.kiaevforums.com

So How Frequent Are These 12V Battery Errors?

Today I experienced the second error/warning that I have a low 12v battery. My first time was about 2 weeks ago. I have had the car since April, and I'm at about 5,000 miles right now. I have no idea what might be causing it, but I know my car was pretty much fully charged when it happened. I...

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

Undsputed

Discussion Starter · #6 · 7 mo ago

dscoti said:
IMO, humble or not 🤣, @Undsputed should have posted this in his original post. Explains more than he does here.
Admin’s: Maybe merge this under the original?

So How Frequent Are These 12V Battery Errors?

Today I experienced the second error/warning that I have a low 12v battery. My first time was about 2 weeks ago. I have had the car since April, and I'm at about 5,000 miles right now. I have no idea what might be causing it, but I know my car was pretty much fully charged when it happened. I...

www.kiaevforums.com

Sort of but at this point the matter isn't about 12v issues (something that looks significant and perhaps related to the Amp that they should've recalled). Instead it's more about general experiences with the lemon law and how Kia interacts with EV6 owners. Unfortunately this car is an expensive experiment for the average user.

Undsputed

Discussion Starter · #7 · 7 mo ago

Soullancer said:
What is the issue that is causing you to consider the lemon law?

Dscoti linked to another post with more detail. But basically, the battery (12v not the big battery) was dead when I came out one morning in September. The problem then began happening more frequently to the point it was a daily occurrence (sometimes twice a day). Jumping the car became like turning the key. After 3 weeks int he garage, they think it's an Amp, but I'm not certain that is the case. The part has been on backorder as they don't seem to have an excess of Amps in the US.

Kia also put out some dealer service advisory (apparently short of being a recall notice) and dealerships are aware of this. I learned this in my most recent update with the dealership's service team.

tangey

· #8 · 7 mo ago

Undsputed said:
Dscoti linked to another post with more detail. But basically, the battery (12v not the big battery) was dead when I came out one morning in September. The problem then began happening more frequently to the point it was a daily occurrence (sometimes twice a day). Jumping the car became like turning the key. After 3 weeks int he garage, they think it's an Amp, but I'm not certain that is the case. The part has been on backorder as they don't seem to have an excess of Amps in the US.

Kia also put out some dealer service advisory (apparently short of being a recall notice) and dealerships are aware of this. I learned this in my most recent update with the dealership's service team.

By amp, do they mean an audio amplifier ?, if so the obvious test would be to disconnect that and give the car back to you (albeit with no audio) to see whether the problem is still there. Given it is almost a daily occurrence, after some days it would be clear whether it is still there or not.

kimraghni

· #9 · 13 d ago

dscoti said:
IMO, humble or not 🤣, @Undsputed should have posted this in his original post. Explains more than he does here. Admin’s: Maybe merge this under the original?

So How Frequent Are These 12V Battery Errors?

Today I experienced the second error/warning that I have a low 12v battery. My first time was about 2 weeks ago. I have had the car since April, and I'm at about 5,000 miles right now. I have no idea what might be causing it, but I know my car was pretty much fully charged when it happened. I...

www.kiaevforums.com

My EV6 just went dead on a full charge. It had a warning and then completely shut down. Was towed to the dealership where it still sits waiting on a fuse and voltage regulator that went out. No ETA on the part so I am envoking lemon law after 42 days with zero response. Worse yet Kia consumer doesn’t seem to care.

Bkaklinv

· #10 · 12 d ago

What behaviors and communications from Kia indicate a lack of concern?

Once you invoke lemon law the manufacturer will cease repair attempts. If you' ve followed your state's formal procedures and actually initiated the process, the manufacturer is likely to go radio silent awaiting the due process of the lemon law in your state.

My brothers corporate (conventional ICE) vehicle was down for 7 weeks waiting on a part. It's not just Kia.

kimraghni

· #11 · 12 d ago

Bkaklinv said:
What behaviors and communications from Kia indicate a lack of concern? Once you invoke lemon law the manufacturer will cease repair attempts. If you' ve followed your state's formal procedures and actually initiated the process, the manufacturer is likely to go radio silent awaiting the due process of the lemon law in your state. My brothers corporate (conventional ICE) vehicle was down for 7 weeks waiting on a part. It's not just Kia.

I did file on 5/13 and was told Kia Consumer would get back to me 5-7 business days. They have yet to reach out to me concerning this. They have to initially respond. They cannot by law keep you waiting. They too have a timeframe that must be followed.

avh

· #12 · 12 d ago

There are some interesting discussions on Quora about experiences with Hyundai buyback process. I start researching because my car is in the shop waiting for an ICCU. The most important is to know the law in your state and potentially in the state you purchased the car if not the same. In my area a car would qualify for lemon law if it sits in the shop for more than 30 calendar days (day 25 you can send Kia a certified letter) or if it goes into the shop 3 times for the same issue under warranty. There should be some information on your state attorney general website.

From what others have been saying you deal directly with the manufacturer not the dealership. One even had the car repaired and driving it while still negotiating a replacement or buyback because the repair took more than 30 days.

My understanding is that invoking lemon law is the last resort, an intermediate step would be to open a case with Kia and request an offer for buy back or replacement. Replacement is probably the best case for both, Kia can resell it as certified pre-owned and you get a new car minus depreciation. My understanding is that the car can be replaced on your title and loan and you don't have to pay registration fees or refinance at higher rates. There is a formula to calculate depreciation, roughly 10% for one year and 10K miles.
My understanding is that manufacturers will get stuck with a car with salvage title if is declared a lemon, they would avoid that. Unfortunately not many people know their rights, and the information is readily available.

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avh

· #13 · 12 d ago

The dealer can do several things for you: diagnose the issue, order the part and fix the car, also can give you a loaner or arrange for a rental on Kia's dime. Availability of parts and a possible buyback is on the manufacturer. In my case I'm open to all possibilities and it depends how confident I'm with the car once it gets repaired. I will also have to way in the way the manufacturer treats me as a customer. For now I can't complain, but the time is ticking, I will see how do I feel on the day 30 LOL

kimraghni

· #14 · 12 d ago

avh said:
There are some interesting discussions on Quora about experiences with Hyundai buyback process. I start researching because my car is in the shop waiting for an ICCU. The most important is to know the law in your state and potentially in the state you purchased the car if not the same. In my area a car would qualify for lemon law if it sits in the shop for more than 30 calendar days (day 25 you can send Kia a certified letter) or if it goes into the shop 3 times for the same issue under warranty. There should be some information on your state attorney general website.

From what others have been saying you deal directly with the manufacturer not the dealership. One even had the car repaired and driving it while still negotiating a replacement or buyback because the repair took more than 30 days.

My understanding is that invoking lemon law is the last resort, an intermediate step would be to open a case with Kia and request an offer for buy back or replacement. Replacement is probably the best case for both, Kia can resell it as certified pre-owned and you get a new car minus depreciation. My understanding is that the car can be replaced on your title and loan and you don't have to pay registration fees or refinance at higher rates. There is a formula to calculate depreciation, roughly 10% for one year and 10K miles.
My understanding is that manufacturers will get stuck with a car with salvage title if is declared a lemon, they would avoid that. Unfortunately not many people know their rights, and the information is readily available.

The same waiting 45 days for ICCU with no ETA.

avh

· #15 · 12 d ago

kimraghni said:
The same waiting 45 days for ICCU with no ETA.

This sucks, I might be in for a long wait, have you contacted Kia? Are they responding?

Edit: Never mind, I saw your post above.

Reactions: 1

Mr. Wonderful

· #16 · 11 d ago

Well people, I own a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL rwd and got the dead 12v battery problem.
I won't bore you with all the details, but.... I brought it to Hyundai service dept. on Oct. 31, 2022, and it is still there.
Yup, nearly 7 months. I initially started the LL process myself by following the guidelines on the FL Attorney General's website.
I soon after decided to hire a law firm to represent me because I paid a dealer markup of $3,500 when I bought the car,
along with $900 dealer fee, and I wanted to make sure I would get it all back.
In the meantime, I was able to receive $7,150 on last years tax return from the federal rebate program.
So, even with a law firm (and I use this term VERY loosely) fighting on my behalf, I MAY receive my $$ next week.
I will be receiving everything I paid minus the mileage fee they charge being deducted from my payout.
And even though Florida LL states the manufacturer must pay my legal fees, Hyundai chose to only pay for half ($1,500)
and make me pay the other half. My attorney said I could sue them for the other half but basically told me it's not worth the hassle,
and I agreed, as that may have prolonged my case. The way I look at it is that I'm still ahead as I got the fed rebate.

FYI... my car died with only 1,170 miles on it. I did have use of a loaner the entire time (Sonata), but bought a 2023 Tesla Model Y Performance
on March 21, 2023, and it has sat in my garage unused since then as I had to keep insurance on my Ioniq 5 while it sat at Hyundai, so I didn't
want to have to pay insurance on 2 cars. It kills me to look at it sitting in the garage - very sad, but I will hopefully be using it soon.
I don't like paying for gas, but I do like putting the miles on the Sonata instead of the Tesla.
For those wondering why I bought the Tesla when I did, those that don't know, the wait to receive a Tesla after you order it is unknown.
You just don't know how long it will be until you get it. Mine took less than 2 months of waiting, and I never expected the lawsuit to take
so long to settle. Surely, I didn't think it would take 7 months.

To sum up - if you are thinking of filing a LL claim, be prepared for huge delays in your settlement - months and months.

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