in the UK i believe brake lights should illuminate when deceleration >= 0.7 metres per second squared. About 0.07g. So 0.2g (in the video) should definitely be triggering it.
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Lack of sufficient brake light illumination when using i-Pedal mode
A while back I was complaining about the EV6 not illuminating the brake lights during aggressive i-pedal liftoff regen. I could tell something was amiss when drivers behind me were closing on my tail uncomfortably fast. It's so bad, in fact, that I installed an LED on my dash that's wired to the third brake lamp so I can conclusively tell when and when not the brake lights were on.
Now, Alec of Technology Connections (a pretty good Youtuber) has a video describing this problem and stresses this is recall worthy.
I will begin persuing this as well.
(Feeling a bit vindicated here)
Now, Alec of Technology Connections (a pretty good Youtuber) has a video describing this problem and stresses this is recall worthy.
I will begin persuing this as well.
(Feeling a bit vindicated here)
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I seriously can't believe hyundai/Kia decided that this was the best way for the brake lights to operate.
Yes, I understand that the regen rate varies depending on how fast the car is going even when keeping the regen level the same but who cares? Just have them activate anytime there's regen.
Yes, I understand that the regen rate varies depending on how fast the car is going even when keeping the regen level the same but who cares? Just have them activate anytime there's regen.
As much as I agree with that concept the problem will be cruising along. anything other than 0 Regen the car actually bounces from power to Regen to power quite a bit. It would drive people behind you crazy and be beyond annoying. Blinking when the car is not even altering speed by 1mph...I seriously can't believe hyundai/Kia decided that this was the best way for the brake lights to operate.
Yes, I understand that the regen rate varies depending on how fast the car is going even when keeping the regen level the same but who cares? Just have them activate anytime there's regen.
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Watching the video now....
Great argument for Regen1, which I find very similar to automatic transmissions. Slows a little if I lift in a curve, but still needs the brake pedal to stop.
Great argument for Regen1, which I find very similar to automatic transmissions. Slows a little if I lift in a curve, but still needs the brake pedal to stop.
Use one of the accelerometers to sense an elevated slowing rate. Several systems have them....the car actually bounces from power to Regen to power quite a bit. ...
Alec is the guy that hosts technology connections FYI
The issue is very much there, but I'm curious if the SA533 bulletin that came out at the start of April changed the behavior somewhat so, time to test
The issue is very much there, but I'm curious if the SA533 bulletin that came out at the start of April changed the behavior somewhat so, time to test
Right. Brain fart, since corrected.Alec is the guy that hosts technology connections FYI
The issue is very much there, but I'm curious if the SA533 bulletin that came out at the start of April changed the behavior somewhat so, time to test
Watching the video now....
Great argument for Regen1, which I find very similar to automatic transmissions. Slows a little if I lift in a curve, but still needs the brake pedal to stop.
Use one of the accelerometers to sense an elevated slowing rate. Several systems have them.
That's what the car does now, but not good enough for some people.
I watched mine at night and find it perfectly fine. Activates as I would expect. It seems some people slow down at very odd speeds, of people behind them not paying attention..
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I've noticed that adaptive cruise, according to my brake light monitor LED, illuminate the brake lights far more than necessary on hilly terrain. If I'm on a downhill (not a steep mountain downhill, just a middling downhill that one frequently encounters on the deep interstate) when regen is simply preventing the car from gaining speed.As much as I agree with that concept the problem will be cruising along. anything other than 0 Regen the car actually bounces from power to Regen to power quite a bit. It would drive people behind you crazy and be beyond annoying. Blinking when the car is not even altering speed by 1mph...
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We just got back from a 500 mile r/t road trip, much of it in hilly south Missouri, and I could see the brake lights blinking on/off constantly on the downhills. That had to drive the guys behind me nuts. Way too sensitive.
Hyundai really needs to overhaul the software that controls when the brakes lights come on.
They don't even need to do that. Thanks to the high gear ratio on the motor, they can already discern very minute changes in speed by monitoring motor speed. It's pretty simple math to calculate and monitor acceleration and deceleration rates. All they need to do is program it.Use one of the accelerometers to sense an elevated slowing rate. Several systems have them.
FMVSS 108 is clear :
Steady burning.
Must be activated upon application of the service brakes. When optically combined with a turn signal lamp, the circuit must be such that the stop signal cannot be activated if the turn signal lamp is flashing.
May also be activated by a device designed to retard the motion of the vehicle.
What’s not so clear is decel rate when the service brakes aren’t used
see, the brake lights don’t come on when you start to decel, they come on when it’s commanded. I.e you step on the brake pedal
this is where US FMVSS are a bit behind.
so KIA can illuminate the brake lights under I-pedal braking, but the exact parameters aren’t as clear cut
I-pedal retardation can be analogous to engine braking, where the brake lights don’t illuminate
so where is the line between “engine braking” and real braking? Not that clear in current regulations
Steady burning.
Must be activated upon application of the service brakes. When optically combined with a turn signal lamp, the circuit must be such that the stop signal cannot be activated if the turn signal lamp is flashing.
May also be activated by a device designed to retard the motion of the vehicle.
What’s not so clear is decel rate when the service brakes aren’t used
see, the brake lights don’t come on when you start to decel, they come on when it’s commanded. I.e you step on the brake pedal
this is where US FMVSS are a bit behind.
so KIA can illuminate the brake lights under I-pedal braking, but the exact parameters aren’t as clear cut
I-pedal retardation can be analogous to engine braking, where the brake lights don’t illuminate
so where is the line between “engine braking” and real braking? Not that clear in current regulations
Thanks for locating the exact regulation.FMVSS 108
Agreed, it's blurry when you consider engine braking. In a manual vehicle you can decelerate extremely quickly and almost to a stop with gearing. Now, there's signs posted around the country that say "No engine braking" but in my eyes 'any' deceleration over a certain rate should invoke the brake lights.
I say 'certain rate' because if you're slowing down because you're driving on an incline then that isn't necessarily a situation that should invoke the brakes. But if you're slowing down at a 'rate' then to me it becomes much more clear
Europe has much clearer regulations. They are written the same way I would write a requirement in my job.
I don’t always agree with them, but they are clear and unambiguous
I don’t always agree with them, but they are clear and unambiguous
Not sure I'd agree. Schedule 12 of the UK Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations is not really very clear either and basically surmounts to when the brake pedal is pushed and not much more.Europe has much clearer regulations. They are written the same way I would write a requirement in my job.
I don’t always agree with them, but they are clear and unambiguous
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
I'm still trudging through the European code but my initial impression is that it's similar.
Lol, UK isn’t Europe 😂
illuminating brake lights without driver input is not unprecedented
GM Super Cruise and Ford Blue Cruise for instance illuminate lights based on decel rate once braking is commanded by the automated system
it’s not quite apples to apples, but it’s not that there aren’t precedents to use as a basis for creating requirements
illuminating brake lights without driver input is not unprecedented
GM Super Cruise and Ford Blue Cruise for instance illuminate lights based on decel rate once braking is commanded by the automated system
it’s not quite apples to apples, but it’s not that there aren’t precedents to use as a basis for creating requirements
I mean, it 'kinda' was... strictly speaking European Union but eh. We fucked that up. I mention it because much of the legislation was heavily influenced by the EU while we were members.
For EU it’s
Regulation No 13 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) that covers braking
Regulation No 13 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) that covers braking
Does anyone know if the Canadian transport regulations allow this to happen as well? I know there are differences between Canadian and US regulations, eg the theft defeat issue. I have been trying to find it on the government website but my search 'Kung Fu' is not what it used to be.
Thanks, was getting lost in stradalex ...For EU it’s
Regulation No 13 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) that covers braking
So UN No48 defines provisions with lighting and light signaling as a whole (6.7.7.1) - Loading...
So in our case these somewhat might cancel each other out since the 'propulsion system' can continue to operate.6.7.7.1. All stop lamps shall be switched ON simultaneously when the braking system provides the relevant signal
defined in UN Regulations Nos. 13 and 13-H.
6.7.7.2. The stop lamps need not function if the device, which starts and/or stops the propulsion system, is in a
position that makes it impossible for the propulsion system to operate.
Digging in to No 13 and No 13-H (Regulations no. 13 and 13-H, Braking :) it defines a lot of items related to Brake assist, but it's almost explicitly revolving emergency braking conditions and almost exclusively focuses on pedal force versus just 'raw' deceleration. Which doesn't cover engine braking which is 'technically' I guess what we have
Does anyone know if the Canadian transport regulations allow this to happen as well? I know there are differences between Canadian and US regulations, eg the theft defeat issue. I have been trying to find it on the government website but my search 'Kung Fu' is not what it used to be.
I have this link. Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (C.R.C., c. 1038)
Lighting is also 108, scroll down to Schedule IV Part Two, 108
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