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Lack of sufficient brake light illumination when using i-Pedal mode

1268 Views 26 Replies 10 Participants Last post by MarcB, 13 d ago

rkr

A while back I was complaining about the EV6 not illuminating the brake lights during aggressive i-pedal liftoff regen. I could tell something was amiss when drivers behind me were closing on my tail uncomfortably fast. It's so bad, in fact, that I installed an LED on my dash that's wired to the third brake lamp so I can conclusively tell when and when not the brake lights were on.

Now, Alec of Technology Connections (a pretty good Youtuber) has a video describing this problem and stresses this is recall worthy.

I will begin persuing this as well.

(Feeling a bit vindicated here)

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Distantsoil

· #21 · 13 d ago

Looks like I was right. Almost all of the EU stuff refers to a pneumatic or hydraulic braking system however I came across CLEPA who appear to be trying to change this to modernize it, specifically relating to non pneumatic or hydraulic systems.

https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2020/wp29grva/GRVA-07-68e.pdf

They're proposing Reference Braking Forces be introduced for electro-mechanical braking systems and the addition of a requirement for braking systems with electric control however it doesn't look like it's gone beyond presentation and discussion.

At least there's progress, but it doesn't look like the EU has tackled this either

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MarcB

· #22 · 13 d ago

MarcB said:
Does anyone know if the Canadian transport regulations allow this to happen as well? I know there are differences between Canadian and US regulations, eg the theft defeat issue. I have been trying to find it on the government website but my search 'Kung Fu' is not what it used to be.

Well found a reference in TSD 108. No requirement, just a "MAY also be activated by a device designed to retard the motion of the vehicle." Should be "Must" with deceleration values defined, and specifically mentioning RBS systems

https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/files/2021-02/108_tsd_rev_r7.pdf

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Distantsoil

· #23 · 13 d ago

Romano said:
I have this link. Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (C.R.C., c. 1038)

Lighting is also 108, scroll down to Schedule IV Part Two, 108

Nice! So Canada has a provision for electric brake systems under standard 105. 108 seems to be more about general lighting like side marker lights, headlamps and reflectors

135 however has more explicit stuff about brakes. And includes provisions about EV's with regenerative systems (S5.1.3)

(a) For an EV equipped with RBS, the RBS is considered to be part of the service brake system if it is automatically activated by an application of the service brake control, if there is no means provided for the driver to disconnect or otherwise deactivate it, and if it is activated in all transmission positions, including neutral.

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Distantsoil

· #24 · 13 d ago

MarcB said:
Well found a reference in TSD 108. No requirement, just a "MAY also be activated by a device designed to retard the motion of the vehicle." Should be "Must" with deceleration values defined, and specifically mentioning RBS systems

https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/files/2021-02/108_tsd_rev_r7.pdf

View attachment 14449

We posted at the same time but take a look at 135 S5.1.3 which basically states the regenerative braking system is to be considered part of the service brake - I saw what you had and initially thought it was limited to traditional brakes. Looks like Canada has it pretty well spelled out though

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d.anthony.robinson

· #25 · 13 d ago

Back in my RX8 manual transmission (and all other manual transmission cars I've ever owned), I know that I would often downshift to slow, which of course does not illuminate brake lights either. I got into the habit of watching my rear view mirror for possibly inattentive drivers who were only watching for brake lights instead of, you know, paying attention to the distance, and was always ready to tap the brake if need be to alert them. Likewise, I never rely on brake lights on the cars ahead of me, but always pay attention to my speed and any changes in distance between cars. Not only is it possible they might have a manual transmission (low probability any more), but the number of cars with faulty brake lights is definitely not zero.

And yeah, I also get annoyed at people who drive "riding the brakes" or seem to randomly tap them at various times. I guess this may be something I'll have to adjust to with more and more EVs on the road that may illuminate (or not) brake lights due to regen settings. Either way, though, there's no substitute for attentive driving. I'm of course not saying there shouldn't be brake lights on all cars, just that they're there to act as an additional cue to what's going on.

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MarcB

· #26 · 13 d ago (Edited)

Distantsoil said:
We posted at the same time but take a look at 135 S5.1.3 which basically states the regenerative braking system is to be considered part of the service brake - I saw what you had and initially thought it was limited to traditional brakes. Looks like Canada has it pretty well spelled out though

Yes TDS 135 defines braking requirements including the note of RBS being part of the service brake system. The only mention of indicators I saw was in relation to Brake system warning indicators(s5.5)..

I think TDS 108 defines when the stop lamps need to be activated.

I don't have my EV6 yet(on order since April 2022) I am wondering if anyone else has checked this out on a Canadian EV6 trim.

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MarcB

· #27 · 13 d ago (Edited)

d.anthony.robinson said:
Back in my RX8 manual transmission (and all other manual transmission cars I've ever owned), I know that I would often downshift to slow, which of course does not illuminate brake lights either. I got into the habit of watching my rear view mirror for possibly inattentive drivers who were only watching for brake lights instead of, you know, paying attention to the distance, and was always ready to tap the brake if need be to alert them. Likewise, I never rely on brake lights on the cars ahead of me, but always pay attention to my speed and any changes in distance between cars. Not only is it possible they might have a manual transmission (low probability any more), but the number of cars with faulty brake lights is definitely not zero.

And yeah, I also get annoyed at people who drive "riding the brakes" or seem to randomly tap them at various times. I guess this may be something I'll have to adjust to with more and more EVs on the road that may illuminate (or not) brake lights due to regen settings. Either way, though, there's no substitute for attentive driving. I'm of course not saying there shouldn't be brake lights on all cars, just that they're there to act as an additional cue to what's going on.

Yeah I do the same. Years of driving in the GTA and one person who re-ended me makes me pretty cautious. In cases where the traffic goes from 120 km/h down to dead stop I usually throw on my hazards and keep my eyes peeled on my review mirror

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