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It is a good point. But I think the issue here is where is the line between legitimate profit and price gouging. It has always been my understanding that even selling under MSRP, dealers make a profit due to manufacturer incentives. But in these unusual times, I am assuming that, even in the absence of incentives, there is profit built into the MSRP in any event. As a matter of public policy, one would think that there should be some limit to what can be charged. Or maybe the market will handle it -- there will be a limit on what this vehicle is worth, just like any other.
You are 100% correct. See, we live in a country where free enterprise is a blessing to enjoy! Good time and bad times. Ups and downs. The reality is that the increase in car prices new and used is the same as the increase in houses and lumber and milk and gasoline and rock and GameStop and and and.... LOL

When supply decreases, demand increases and with it the price. This is something that benefits most of us here on our paychecks! Most of us have a very specialized craft that we have learned and trained ourselves to perform. If everyone could do what we can do then we would get paid a fraction of what we do. Because the supply is low of people who have our specific skill set, we reap the benefit of a higher demand and thus, a higher value for our work!
 

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You are 100% correct. See, we live in a country where free enterprise is a blessing to enjoy! Good time and bad times. Ups and downs. The reality is that the increase in car prices new and used is the same as the increase in houses and lumber and milk and gasoline and rock and GameStop and and and.... LOL

When supply decreases, demand increases and with it the price. This is something that benefits most of us here on our paychecks! Most of us have a very specialized craft that we have learned and trained ourselves to perform. If everyone could do what we can do then we would get paid a fraction of what we do. Because the supply is low of people who have our specific skill set, we reap the benefit of a higher demand and thus, a higher value for our work!
Before the car is shipped to the dealer make sure you have an agreed-upon price.
The following is a reply that I got from Kia.

Thank you for responding back to us in regards to EV6 ordering process. As orders are directly dealt with the Kia dealerships, to address the ordering process I have confirmed that if you cancel your order the vehicle does not get delivered to the dealership it goes to the next person on the waiting list.

Have a great rest of your week


Sincerely,
Kia America
 

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When supply decreases, demand increases and with it the price. This is something that benefits most of us here on our paychecks! Most of us have a very specialized craft that we have learned and trained ourselves to perform. If everyone could do what we can do then we would get paid a fraction of what we do. Because the supply is low of people who have our specific skill set, we reap the benefit of a higher demand and thus, a higher value for our work!
Sorry, but IMO that's a twisted view of capitalism. In a true free market the reservation-holder could shop it around to different dealers and have it delivered to the one of their choosing. What's happening here is dealers price-gouging because they have what amounts to a mini-monopoly.
 

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Before the car is shipped to the dealer make sure you have an agreed-upon price.
The following is a reply that I got from Kia.

Thank you for responding back to us in regards to EV6 ordering process. As orders are directly dealt with the Kia dealerships, to address the ordering process I have confirmed that if you cancel your order the vehicle does not get delivered to the dealership it goes to the next person on the waiting list.

Have a great rest of your week


Sincerely,
Kia America
Thank you for that info.
 

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as i said once before , what's the benefit of getting a $7500 or more tax credit if the dealer is marking up the msrp, in effect they are saying we want you to give us your tax credit!!..they, Kia and most other manufacturers use the credit in their advertising as an incentive, and then show the prices after applying the tax credit as consumers actual cost. unfortunatly all one can do is refuse the car and express your views on social media...there will always be some fool with the money to pay the upcharge. I also wonder how those of us who would lease the car could do that unless they add the ADM to the required down payment. We plan on checking out a Polestar 2 soon, they have great lease deals currently and cars are available now.
 

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Sorry, but IMO that's a twisted view of capitalism. In a true free market the reservation-holder could shop it around to different dealers and have it delivered to the one of their choosing. What's happening here is dealers price-gouging because they have what amounts to a mini-monopoly.
So, how do you explain the price of meat going up when a store runs low on supply? A gas station charging more for fuel when low on supply? Whenever supply drops, demand increases and the price goes with demand. It's nothing to do with a monopoly. Just supply and demand.
 

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The other issue is resale value. Just because you paid an inflated value in 2022 doesn't necessarily mean the value will remain inflated after that. A year or two down the road, some of the new (or even current) tech that should have been on 2022 models will be commonplace. Paying an inflated value for a car that lacks features due to the current climate is going to prove to be an even worse investment than cars normally are. Sometimes there's a big price to pay to get what you want, when you want it.
 

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So, how do you explain the price of meat going up when a store runs low on supply? A gas station charging more for fuel when low on supply? Whenever supply drops, demand increases and the price goes with demand. It's nothing to do with a monopoly. Just supply and demand.
I guess it all depends on your point of view..I wonder how those that do that would like it if every time there was a supply issue with prescriptions we told our customers we were adding an APM (additional prescription markup), take it or leave it, i'm sure someone else will be glad to pay it and you can juat get sick! It really is just about GREED! The american way!
 

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So, how do you explain the price of meat going up when a store runs low on supply? A gas station charging more for fuel when low on supply? Whenever supply drops, demand increases and the price goes with demand. It's nothing to do with a monopoly. Just supply and demand.
That's a fantastic question! And perfectly highlights the difference.

You see, those are stock items. If I go into a store and note that their steaks are $40, but then come back 6 months later and steaks are selling for $50, that's price changes driven by demand, and the store can sell me their steaks for more. However, if I order $40 worth of steak 6 months in advance from the butcher, it better not be $50 when I go to pick it up because the grocery store adds a $10 "shortage surcharge" to the meat the butcher forced me to pick up at that store.

In a true free market, the dealers can surcharge what they will, but I can pick a different dealer at will (with reasonable lead time for delivery logistics) without being locked into a relationship with an entity that neither ordered the car nor truly owns it. In fact, I should also be able to sell my reservation to someone else - why should the dealer get all the profit from an early delivery of a highly profitable car? If I go all the way through to having it delivered, drive it, don't like it, and back out, then it's fully reasonable at that point for the dealer to have the rights to sell it for whatever price they wish, or for Kia to demand the vehicle back, or whatever other arrangement has been contractually stipulated.
 

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That's a fantastic question! And perfectly highlights the difference.

You see, those are stock items. If I go into a store and note that their steaks are $40, but then come back 6 months later and steaks are selling for $50, that's price changes driven by demand, and the store can sell me their steaks for more. However, if I order $40 worth of steak 6 months in advance from the butcher, it better not be $50 when I go to pick it up because the grocery store adds a $10 "shortage surcharge" to the meat the butcher forced me to pick up at that store.

In a true free market, the dealers can surcharge what they will, but I can pick a different dealer at will (with reasonable lead time for delivery logistics) without being locked into a relationship with an entity that neither ordered the car nor truly owns it. In fact, I should also be able to sell my reservation to someone else - why should the dealer get all the profit from an early delivery of a highly profitable car? If I go all the way through to having it delivered, drive it, don't like it, and back out, then it's fully reasonable at that point for the dealer to have the rights to sell it for whatever price they wish, or for Kia to demand the vehicle back, or whatever other arrangement has been contractually stipulated.
You have to admit this is a unique situation where the customer orders the vehicle directly from the manufacture The car is dropped off at the dealership of their choice. The dealer is taking no risk it’s not costing The dealer any money to bring the car in, put the car on the lot or pay taxes and interest while waiting to sell the car.
Let’s hope KIA does something to try to protect Their name from unscrupulous Dealers. Hopefully KIA has a system in place where they hold the cars at a holding facility until a purchase and sale agreement is signed between the person who ordered the car and the dealership that was lucky enough to be picked.
Hopefully the car dealerships appreciate the customers that chose their dealership over the other dealerships they could’ve sent the car to.
 

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So, how do you explain the price of meat going up when a store runs low on supply? A gas station charging more for fuel when low on supply? Whenever supply drops, demand increases and the price goes with demand. It's nothing to do with a monopoly. Just supply and demand.
If you order a car through a particular dealer at MRSP and he later sticks on a supplement, that ain’t free enterprise baby. That’s the dealer’s way of saying they hate you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Just in case what my dealer said to me when I asked for them to commit to not marking up the vehicle prior to the "switch by dealer date" here is what they wrote me. I found this a bit obnoxious, but I guess maybe I started it by letting them know if they didn't make a written commitment, I would switch dealers.



"I just spoke with the GSM, xxx, and he told me that I can confirm that we will not do any dealer adds or markups to your EV6 order.

I want to make sure you're aware that those dealer adds cover the cost of us doing inspections, getting it detailed after it comes off the truck, getting it detailed once you come in to finalize the purchase, tinting, installing a theft recovery-device, filling the tires with nitrogen, adding custom wheel locks to prevent theft, etc.

Since you're not wanting to pay for any adds, this means that you will not have any of these things done to your vehicle.
The EV6 will come off the truck, get a state inspection, and then it will be yours."
 

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...here is what they wrote me...
I want to make sure you're aware that those dealer adds cover the cost of us doing inspections, getting it detailed after it comes off the truck, getting it detailed once you come in to finalize the purchase, tinting, installing a theft recovery-device, filling the tires with nitrogen, adding custom wheel locks to prevent theft, etc.
Gee, apparently all car dealerships have been loosing money all these these years they've been selling cars for MSRP and below. Thank god for all these supply chain issues, if it weren't for the current inflated values, they were probably all on the verge of bankruptcy. 🙄
 

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……tinting, installing a theft recovery-device, filling the tires with nitrogen, adding custom wheel locks to prevent theft,
I have insurance, once purchased, I’m responsible and will take my own theft prevention measures…. And at a greatly reduced cost than what the dealer will charge.




The EV6 will come off the truck, get a state inspection, and then it will be yours."
Exactly the way I’d prefer it. Don’t even wash it or take the protective plastic of.
 

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If you order a car through a particular dealer at MRSP and he later sticks on a supplement, that ain’t free enterprise baby. That’s the dealer’s way of saying they hate you.
@arnsbrae, I don't particularly agree with changing an order. We were speaking in general of the market and supply and demand. I am ordering cars for anyone that wants one at MSRP and will stand by that.
 
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