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@dc30307, no one is trying to insult you that I'm aware of. I, for one, am not. But, when a man owns a business that sells shoes and it's how he supports his family, what he charges for those shoes is DIRECTLY connected to his ability to get shoes. If he's got 100 pairs like normal, then his prices remain normal. If his supply of shoes dwindles to 5 pairs of shoes, you can be guaranteed that those last 5 pairs will go for a premium.

@Cnsheets, this is the highest priority and most sales people miss it. Treat a guest like they want to be treated... like human beings... and the world becomes a different place!

@ColoradoKia, it's not Kia price gouging. Every dealership. Every manufacturer. We are ALL out of inventory. It's sucks for US just as much as it does for you. We are all 100% commission. We only get paid when we sell a car. It's hard to feed our families when there's no cars to sell.
The manufacturer does not want the price to be above MSRP--you sent this letter to us! Of course, it is not Kia doing the price gouging, it is the dealers that we are starting to hear about...It is generally considered price gouging for dealers to take advantage of shortages to raise prices to exceptional levels...

And, this was only one of my reasons for nearly losing interest in the EV6--too many other problems (e.g., Bjorn Nyland's discovery of poor cold-weather and charging battery regulation and pretty low winter range at highway speeds) and design shortcomings (software buggy, no OTA updates) cropping up. I am still listening and have not made up my mind, but combine these multiple shortcomings with inflated prices and I may lose interest. Of course, Kia will likely to be able to sell all of the few thousand that are coming to the US this year after the First Edition orders come in.
 

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The manufacturer does not want the price to be above MSRP--you sent this letter to us! Of course, it is not Kia doing the price gouging, it is the dealers that we are starting to hear about...It is generally considered price gouging for dealers to take advantage of shortages to raise prices to exceptional levels...

And, this was only one of my reasons for nearly losing interest in the EV6--too many other problems (e.g., Bjorn Nyland's discovery of poor cold-weather and charging battery regulation and pretty low winter range at highway speeds) and design shortcomings (software buggy, no OTA updates) cropping up. I am still listening and have not made up my mind, but combine these multiple shortcomings with inflated prices and I may lose interest. Of course, Kia will likely to be able to sell all of the few thousand that are coming to the US this year after the First Edition orders come in.
So, the EV6 on the highway in cold weather is under the command of the same laws of physics as any other Tesla, VW, Nissan, or anyone else. Truth be told, even gas cars lose 20% efficiency in the cold winter months. This is a hurdle for EV's, not necessarily the EV6.

My comment had nothing to with someone's need to make a profit, and everything to do with the justification for it. The mark-ups over MSRP that some of these dealers are suggesting might represent 5x the profit per car, or more, than they made a couple years ago when they were selling cars below MSRP. For a dealer to say "if I'm "only" going to charge you MSRP, then I can't afford to have Billy in back wash your car" is equivalent to saying "I believe you're stupid enough to believe this ridiculous justification for my prices". And THAT is insulting. If it's supply and demand, then just man up and say "it's the market right now, if you don't buy it at this price, someone else will". The story that the other poster was given about not getting a car wash if he "only" paid MSRP and didn't buy any of their high-profit add-ons is ridiculous and petty.
I agree with you 100% and I believe that my response to that posters comment was "that guy is an idiot". LOL
 

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No, the EV6 GT-line AWD winter range test at 74 mph with temperature about 34 deg. F on dry roads was about 170 miles, less than half the expected 328 mile summer range. Of course, all cars lose range in cold or wet conditions, but this is pretty substantial winter range loss relative to some other EVs. Check Bjorn Nyland video from 4 days ago:
 

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No, the EV6 GT-line AWD winter range test at 74 mph with temperature about 34 deg. F on dry roads was about 170 miles, less than half the expected 328 mile summer range.
The GT-Line AWD is only rated to 280ish miles. Here's a link to a 21 MY that they estimate to get around 150 miles in a similar test of all highway and 24F. it's a standard range RWD so you could squeeze out a little more with the LR but adding the AWD with it will mean that it's still going to come in under 200 miles and they rate it at 314.

Tesla Model Y cold range test
 

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No, the EV6 GT-line AWD winter range test at 74 mph with temperature about 34 deg. F on dry roads was about 170 miles, less than half the expected 328 mile summer range. Of course, all cars lose range in cold or wet conditions, but this is pretty substantial winter range loss relative to some other EVs. Check Bjorn Nyland video from 4 days ago:
Especially considering that his car supposedly has the heat pump, and Kia claims the HP "can achieve 80-percent of the range at -7 degrees Celsius that it would at 25 degrees Celsius". But he's also on winter tires, which I'm sure doesn't help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
I just want to respectively point out that most dealers/brands have a pretty spotty record regarding most issues on this thread. The Mustang EV had many dealers add mark-ups for reservation holders and don't get me started on how Chevy was/is handling the recall for cars that catch on fire (for the record they purchased mine back at a very fair price). We have a messy relationship with cars, especially on how dealers sell and consumers buy. I have no personal evidence that KIA is worse than the rest, and no real hopes that they will be better than the rest. Tesla has plenty of problems (initial quality, long lead times for repairs, and cars that won't start because of server issues) but I will say I like their reasonably transparent sales model. It is fair that under most conditions people pay the same for a car regardless of their haggling skill. I could very well end up with a Tesla if KIA tries to gouge me, just as a matter of principle, but have high hopes that the dealer will honor their email commitment to sell at MSRP.
 

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The GT-Line AWD is only rated to 280ish miles. Here's a link to a 21 MY that they estimate to get around 150 miles in a similar test of all highway and 24F. it's a standard range RWD so you could squeeze out a little more with the LR but adding the AWD with it will mean that it's still going to come in under 200 miles and they rate it at 314.
 

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This doesn't seem quite right...GT-Line AWD should come in only about 15 miles less range than RWD, which is 328 based on the Asian Petrolhead video range test, so maybe about 313, not 280ish. Maybe you have a better source for your 280ish estimate? Mine is obviously a guess...If mine is not wrong, then 170/313 is 54.3%. In contrast, the Tesla Model Y SR only gets about 244 miles overall in summer (video link below), likely less than that at 70 mph, not the 314 you cited, and the video you cited estimates the 24 deg. F 70 mph range with the cabin heater set high (73 deg. F) was 186 miles. So, the Tesla Standard Range ratio of winter to summer would be 186/244 = 76.2% or likely higher. If this is correct that is a BIG difference in winter range loss: with the EV6 getting only 54.3% of the summer range in the cold, and the Tesla Standard Range getting 76.2% of the summer range in the cold. This warrants more investigation--if it is true, it could be a significant concern for those in cold climates...maybe, unless there is something wrong in my calculations...or maybe other winter range tests will later not show such large range loss.

 

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I just want to respectively point out that most dealers/brands have a pretty spotty record regarding most issues on this thread. The Mustang EV had many dealers add mark-ups for reservation holders and don't get me started on how Chevy was/is handling the recall for cars that catch on fire (for the record they purchased mine back at a very fair price). We have a messy relationship with cars, especially on how dealers sell and consumers buy. I have no personal evidence that KIA is worse than the rest, and no real hopes that they will be better than the rest. Tesla has plenty of problems (initial quality, long lead times for repairs, and cars that won't start because of server issues) but I will say I like their reasonably transparent sales model. It is fair that under most conditions people pay the same for a car regardless of their haggling skill. I could very well end up with a Tesla if KIA tries to gouge me, just as a matter of principle, but have high hopes that the dealer will honor their email commitment to sell at MSRP.
I don't know what people saw at the moment they put in their FE order, but if a price was displayed to them at that point, it is difficult to see how it can be changed at the moment the order is picked up. Sure, the destination charge can be added...But, here in the USA when we pick something off the shelf at a store because of its price and go to pay for it at the checkout counter, that better be the price we have to pay (except for tax)...
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
I don't know what people saw at the moment they put in their FE order, but if a price was displayed to them at that point, it is difficult to see how it can be changed at the moment the order is picked up. Sure, the destination charge can be added...But, here in the USA when we pick something off the shelf at a store because of its price and go to pay for it at the checkout counter, that better be the price we have to pay (except for tax)...
I think everyone sees MSRP and a note that says the dealer can basically do whatever they want to the price. I'm not saying this is right/moral, just my opinion of reality.
 

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They do have a right to charge what the market will bear. That is how capitalism works. MSRP is exactly that - "suggested" retail price. It is good KIA at least asked dealers to honor that but they are independent franchisees and as we are seeing Ford dealers do with Mach E's ... they can add markup. Hopefully they understand the uniqueness of the First Edition buyers (ambassadors) and the importance of not having posts all over the internet like Ford does right now showing ridiculous markups. Hopefully someday the Tesla/Rivian/Lucid/Polestar car buying method is the norm instead of the oddity.

With all that said, we as consumers have the right to not purchase from them also. These dealers that are charging ludicrous markups will hopefully pay for the greed when the market stabilizes. Only time will tell.

I personally, will not pay above MSRP (other than standard fees like destination, etc) and am ready to walk away. I have also done what I can to confirm my dealer will honor MSRP but I know by time they get the car, it really depends on the market and what they feel at the time.

It sucks this is happening and feel really bad for people with dealers that are doing this as we all have been anticipating this car for some time now.
 

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I think everyone sees MSRP and a note that says the dealer can basically do whatever they want to the price. I'm not saying this is right/moral, just my opinion of reality.
They do have a right to charge what the market will bear. That is how capitalism works. MSRP is exactly that - "suggested" retail price. It is good KIA at least asked dealers to honor that but they are independent franchisees and as we are seeing Ford dealers do with Mach E's ... they can add markup. Hopefully they understand the uniqueness of the First Edition buyers (ambassadors) and the importance of not having posts all over the internet like Ford does right now showing ridiculous markups. Hopefully someday the Tesla/Rivian/Lucid/Polestar car buying method is the norm instead of the oddity.

With all that said, we as consumers have the right to not purchase from them also. These dealers that are charging ludicrous markups will hopefully pay for the greed when the market stabilizes. Only time will tell.

I personally, will not pay above MSRP (other than standard fees like destination, etc) and am ready to walk away. I have also done what I can to confirm my dealer will honor MSRP but I know by time they get the car, it really depends on the market and what they feel at the time.

It sucks this is happening and feel really bad for people with dealers that are doing this as we all have been anticipating this car for some time now.
I agree with that if I’m coming in off the street and buying a car that they Took a chance on and it’s costing them money.
This is not that situation. This situation is completely different they did not order the car and they did not sell Me on the car.
They are the recipient of a gift in the way of a sale And it is a no dicker sale at full MSRP.
With no downside.
Shame on you people that ordered a vehicle and are will to pay MSRP after researching the car and ordering it and picking a dealer you should be willing to pay a few extra thousand.
 

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I agree with jack mannix on this. The dealer's allocation of EV6 First Edition is ZERO unless a customer chooses that dealer. Dealers charging over MSRP in this situation are acting like the customer has handed them a winning lottery ticket and their Thank You is to shaft the customer. MSRP has thousands of dollars of profit built in for the dealer. If I want a Mach E, I can see what the charge is BEFORE I put in my reservation. I can shop to find a dealer that will not charge over MSRP. Can't do that with the EV6 First Edition. I'm glad that KIA America is encouraging their dealers to do the right thing. We'll see if the dealers listen.
 

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I agree with jack mannix on this. The dealer's allocation of EV6 First Edition is ZERO unless a customer chooses that dealer. Dealers charging over MSRP in this situation are acting like the customer has handed them a winning lottery ticket and their Thank You is to shaft the customer. MSRP has thousands of dollars of profit built in for the dealer. If I want a Mach E, I can see what the charge is BEFORE I put in my reservation. I can shop to find a dealer that will not charge over MSRP. Can't do that with the EV6 First Edition. I'm glad that KIA America is encouraging their dealers to do the right thing. We'll see if the dealers listen.
On Wednesday I spoke to the SM at my delivery dealership, Auto World Kia in East Meadow, NY and he told me that they typically don't markup cars that were ordered but I should confirm with the GM. So today I went to the dealership and I spoke to the GM and he confirmed that he won't be marking up the EV6 FE which made me happy. He basically said some of the things that @EV61ED4ME wrote. He said it's not right for them to charge over MSRP on cars that were ordered from corporate and his dealership was simply selected by the customer as the delivery dealer. He even joked with me to tell anyone who's hearing from their dealer about a markup should switch their delivery to his dealership where they won't do a markup. He also said that he believes that Kia US would move a reserved EV6 FE to a different dealer if a customer complained to them. Based on the letter that @MurlinatoR posted, Kia US clearly wants their FE customers to be happy so maybe they would.
 

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I agree with that if I’m coming in off the street and buying a car that they Took a chance on and it’s costing them money.
This is not that situation. This situation is completely different they did not order the car and they did not sell Me on the car.
They are the recipient of a gift in the way of a sale And it is a no dicker sale at full MSRP.
With no downside.
Shame on you people that ordered a vehicle and are will to pay MSRP after researching the car and ordering it and picking a dealer you should be willing to pay a few extra thousand.
I totally agree but doesn’t change fact that they can. I said it’s crappy if they do and literally said hopefully that greed will cost them in the long run.
 

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I’m sitting at my Kia dealership waiting on service for my Forte. Walking around, they have several 2022 Niro EVs on the lot. All with $5k “market adjustment”, phantom footprints, etc. $53k for a Niro.

and a $12k market adjustment on a Sorrento.


Font Sleeve Paper Paper product Document
 

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WOW that is really price gouging! My dealer is adding about 2K to 5K to all their cars Except the Niro EV's. I can go 10 miles farther to find a dealer listing all their cars for MSRP. BTW Did we ever think MSRP for a car would be a deal? Based on holdback and difference between Invoice and MSRP, I am estimating about $3700 of dealer profit on an EV6 FE before any incentives that they may get from KIA. I have seen statistics that show some of these dealer conglomerates are making record profits right now. Not surprising if people are willing to pay prices like you showed. That's at least a 20% profit. WOW!
 

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I posted this the reservation tracking list discussion yesterday but I figured it belongs in this thread too and I added more details that I remember from my conversation.

Yesterday (Friday, Oct 15) I spoke to someone with Kia corporate (800-333-4542) to ask if the dealer that we selected for the First Edition delivery can markup the price and they started chatting with the person in charge of the First Edition program to get my markup question answered and she confirmed that the dealer has the power to markup the car whatever they want and because they are independent dealers and unfortunately Kia corporate really can't do anything to stop them. I told her that dealers near me in Queens, NY are marking up Tellurides $25k (according to my EV6 delivery dealer on Long Island) and that's a $45k SUV so imagine how much they could markup a $59k electric vehicle that gets a tax credit. She admitted to me that Kia corporation does not like dealers marking up the cars but again they can't stop them. She said customers will remember which dealers tried to price gauge them which will hurt their reputation and I said it's obviously not hurting them if people are willing to pay for the markup. Then I pointed out to her that my First Edition will be in possession of the dealership I selected on the reservation and I won't be able to move it to another dealership that won't mark it up. I'm actually regretting that I didn't think of the potential dealer markup before the Sept 1 deadline to change the reservation so I could get the sales manager of my selected delivery dealer to put something in writing that he won't mark it up otherwise I would have selected a different dealer.

Then I asked, how can Kia corporation stop the dealership from selling the car to someone else if the person who reserved it decides not to get it (because of a huge markup by the dealer) meanwhile it's supposed to go to a person on the First Edition waiting list? And how will Kia get that car to the dealership that the person on the waiting list selected? I told her the dealer's name will be on the window sticker so they could argue that it's in their possession and once the original buyer turns it down then they can sell it to whoever they want at whatever price they want. She didn't have an answer. She kept saying well none of this has happened yet so let's wait and see. I said they'd better have a plan to deal with both potential issues otherwise they could have irate customers who are excited to get their EV6's only to have the dealer jack up the price to an unaffordable level. I said the easy solution is to tell dealers that anyone who attempts to markup reserved First Editions will be de-prioritized to get allocations of the EV6 or any other in demand models.
They won’t have an irate customer: someone will pay the MSRP+most of the markup. This reservation holder, meanwhile, will have gone over to Lucid: better performance, better interior, and, with the kind of markup being discussed, a similar price. Or the MME, but it may have the same problem. Buying from Lucid is without this dealership bs, which is a relic from a century ago.
 
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