Kia EV6 Forum banner
41 - 60 of 96 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
This is an issue for me as well. But it is also an issue for Kia.

No broad OTA capability on the EV6 when it is obvious a new system will soon be in place forces people to think. This is a core point in the value of the car. I think it will have a significant impact on the resale value. For me, buying the GV60 is the better option because of this rather than any luxury pitch. The EV6 suits me well otherwise, so a short term lease makes sense.

For several reasons, I believe Kia will move fast to the Nvidia system. A model refresh in a couple of years timetable is out of the question.

-1) EV6 is Kia's halo product and statement of future direction (all EV, competitive with 'upscale' brands).

0) It's already been announced their newly developed cars will use it.

1) The hardware/software is a decoupled component in the architecture, i.e. they can drop it in without changing motors, sensors, displays, etc. I don't know if a new controller system would need government agency recertifications. It doesn't seem to matter for other manufacturers.

2) The Hyundai group (and Kia) are trying to move upscale in the market. Broad OTA capabilities will become table stakes in the argument to spend more. Tesla has been selling that to the early adopters from the start. But it is not just early adopters who will respond to that idea. People now generally understand the importance of upgrades and improvements from their experience with smartphones and computers. In short, OTA capabilities will become a key differentiator and your product won't make the short list without it.

Choice in the attainable EV market is exploding now. Being early to market and investing to make the move to a technically advanced, more luxurious brand is critical for Kia. They have a small window to accomplish that. The Chinese manufacturers will likely soon begin to eat the low end of the EV market in Europe and North America. Most legacy automakers face an existential threat and for many the strategy is to move upscale and be competitive in that market with high volume. Not all of them are going to survive.

I will surprised if Kia doesn't move to Nvidia in the EV6 soon. They might even slipstream it into the current model.

They won't wait long in any case because it will be part of having a competitive product in 2023.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I really don't think it's that important whether updates are delivered OTA or via update at the dealership. The important thing is, that it gets updated when needed, and not being left to itself, when a new system is implemented, which will happen faster and faster, as the development in these things is growing exponentially. Of course OTA is preferable, but to me not a deal-breaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I really don't think it's that important whether updates are delivered OTA or via update at the dealership. The important thing is, that it gets updated when needed, and not being left to itself, when a new system is implemented, which will happen faster and faster, as the development in these things is growing exponentially. Of course OTA is preferable, but to me not a deal-breaker.
Fair enough point.

That said, Kia will then have a couple of EVs (and a handful of model years in warranty) on a legacy system, and all of their new and higher volume production on a new OTA updatable system. Development for that new system is being pushed by a leading AI technology company, which is itself in a highly competitive business environment.

The other point is that, at least in the US, the dealership experience for updates, recalls, etc. is ... ahhhh ...variable.

I still think OTA will be an important deal point for EVs.

Nissan's Ariya will have broad OTA capability when it launches next year. Don't know yet about Toyota. VW has rolled iout broad OTA now for their EVs: VW Will Update Your ID Over-the-Air
Along with Telsa and Ford, these are Kia's volume competitors in the next two years.

I think Kia has to make broad OTA capability part of EV6 soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Fair enough point.

That said, Kia will then have a couple of EVs (and a handful of model years in warranty) on a legacy system, and all of their new and higher volume production on a new OTA updatable system. Development for that new system is being pushed by a leading AI technology company, which is itself in a highly competitive business environment.

The other point is that, at least in the US, the dealership experience for updates, recalls, etc. is ... ahhhh ...variable.

I still think OTA will be an important deal point for EVs.

Nissan's Ariya will have broad OTA capability when it launches next year. Don't know yet about Toyota. VW has rolled iout broad OTA now for their EVs: VW Will Update Your ID Over-the-Air
Along with Telsa and Ford, these are Kia's volume competitors in the next two years.

I think Kia has to make broad OTA capability part of EV6 soon.
I do agree with You on the question about KIA using nVidia on the EV6, rather than an old, probably dying, system. All I meant was, that the way the systems get updated doesn't matter as much. The thread was seemingly more about the importance of the delivery-method than the system to be updated. But of course I also know, that any future systems would be OTA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I do agree with You on the question about KIA using nVidia on the EV6, rather than an old, probably dying, system. All I meant was, that the way the systems get updated doesn't matter as much. The thread was seemingly more about the importance of the delivery-method than the system to be updated. But of course I also know, that any future systems would be OTA.
Completely agree with you re: the end result of the upgrade: the technology mechanism doesn't matter.

For me, I suppose this thread is also an attempt to reason about when Kia will switch the EV6 to Nvidia and gain broad OTA capabilities.

Regards,
Michael
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
The other point is that, at least in the US, the dealership experience for updates, recalls, etc. is ... ahhhh ...variable.

Its pretty much the same in the UK. Most of the time you only discovered that an update was due by reading forums, then dealers were reluctant to update the car for some reason so you had to press them to make sure the car software was up-to-date when the car was due for a service. My wife's 2019 BMW updated itself wirelessly while sitting on our driveway! I personally will never go back to repeatedly having to take my car back to the dealer for software/firmware updates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
In my view OTA updates are very important.
Having experienced how little dealerships actually know about their cars, particularly EV's, the less you have to rely on them, the better in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I do agree with You on the question about KIA using nVidia on the EV6, rather than an old, probably dying, system. All I meant was, that the way the systems get updated doesn't matter as much. The thread was seemingly more about the importance of the delivery-method than the system to be updated. But of course I also know, that any future systems would be OTA.
I have to say that while updates are important, the delivery method is just almost nearly as important. Fact is, OTA updates means the manufacturer can deliver and distribute updates quickly and promptly. This means they can push more patches/fixes out faster. Tesla on average pushes an update once a month, small fixes are even faster. There's real value in that.

If KIA/Hyundai does updates through the dealership, they're not going to want to keep pushing constant updates... owners will be annoyed if they're told to go to the dealership every month or every few months for software updates since you can't just roll these things into regular visits like oil changes as you won't have those with EVs.

And speaking of which, there's the issue of convenience. OTA updates are great for that, easy and simple. Car automatically connects ot WiFi when you're home, it auto-downloads the update and then prompts you for when you want to install it, you can even schedule it so the install occurs overnight when you're sleeping. Tesla has been doing this for years and is one of the things I absolutely love about my Model 3. I don't want to have to bother taking my car into the dealership just for software updates that can be done automatically OTA, having to wait and potentially pay them to do it.

The fact that other manufacturers still haven't figured this out or gotten on board is highly disappointing but as I said, I suspect this may be intentional in other to appease and keep their dealer network happy because realistically the only time they can make EV owners bring their EVs into a dealer on a regular basis is software updates since pretty much every maintenance items that makes ICE owners bring their cars into dealerships every couple of months do not exist with EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
This is an issue for me as well. But it is also an issue for Kia.

No broad OTA capability on the EV6 when it is obvious a new system will soon be in place forces people to think. This is a core point in the value of the car. I think it will have a significant impact on the resale value. For me, buying the GV60 is the better option because of this rather than any luxury pitch. The EV6 suits me well otherwise, so a short term lease makes sense.

For several reasons, I believe Kia will move fast to the Nvidia system. A model refresh in a couple of years timetable is out of the question.

-1) EV6 is Kia's halo product and statement of future direction (all EV, competitive with 'upscale' brands).

0) It's already been announced their newly developed cars will use it.

1) The hardware/software is a decoupled component in the architecture, i.e. they can drop it in without changing motors, sensors, displays, etc. I don't know if a new controller system would need government agency recertifications. It doesn't seem to matter for other manufacturers.

2) The Hyundai group (and Kia) are trying to move upscale in the market. Broad OTA capabilities will become table stakes in the argument to spend more. Tesla has been selling that to the early adopters from the start. But it is not just early adopters who will respond to that idea. People now generally understand the importance of upgrades and improvements from their experience with smartphones and computers. In short, OTA capabilities will become a key differentiator and your product won't make the short list without it.

Choice in the attainable EV market is exploding now. Being early to market and investing to make the move to a technically advanced, more luxurious brand is critical for Kia. They have a small window to accomplish that. The Chinese manufacturers will likely soon begin to eat the low end of the EV market in Europe and North America. Most legacy automakers face an existential threat and for many the strategy is to move upscale and be competitive in that market with high volume. Not all of them are going to survive.

I will surprised if Kia doesn't move to Nvidia in the EV6 soon. They might even slipstream it into the current model.

They won't wait long in any case because it will be part of having a competitive product in 2023.
Is the GV60 different in this regard?
 

·
Registered
2022 Kia EV6 FE - Glacier White
Joined
·
120 Posts
Still not a dealbreaker for me however I agree with most comments that it just doesn’t make sense to not put the Nvidia system in this brand new start of your next generation of electric vehicles. Especially since Genesis is doing it. Why start an entire new platform with an outdated infotainment system?

One can hope that the Nvidia is actually in there and they just have a chip shortage problem and it could be activated later however I think that’s a pipe dream. Seriously, I doubt that is the case.

Irregardless, I still plan on taking delivery of my EV6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
As mentioned, last week i spoke with one from Kia Denmark. He promised to return with more information this week.
= Jeg har ikke haft mulighed for at finde et svar til dig, så jeg sender dit spørgsmål til vores produktchef Thomas Bjerg.
= I haven't had the opportunity to find an answer for you, so I will send your question to our product manager Thomas Bjerg.

I already cancelled my EV6 order tuesday, and ordered a Polestar 2. I don't need the space, and i'll be charging 99% of the time at home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
As mentioned, last week i spoke with one from Kia Denmark. He promised to return with more information this week.
= Jeg har ikke haft mulighed for at finde et svar til dig, så jeg sender dit spørgsmål til vores produktchef Thomas Bjerg.
= I haven't had the opportunity to find an answer for you, so I will send your question to our product manager Thomas Bjerg.

I already cancelled my EV6 order tuesday, and ordered a Polestar 2. I don't need the space, and i'll be charging 99% of the time at home.
Did you have to pay a cancellation fee?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
As mentioned, last week i spoke with one from Kia Denmark. He promised to return with more information this week.
= Jeg har ikke haft mulighed for at finde et svar til dig, så jeg sender dit spørgsmål til vores produktchef Thomas Bjerg.
= I haven't had the opportunity to find an answer for you, so I will send your question to our product manager Thomas Bjerg.

I already cancelled my EV6 order tuesday, and ordered a Polestar 2. I don't need the space, and i'll be charging 99% of the time at home.
But the polestar is like 500k now with 2 packs - before it was like 450k?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Is the GV60 different in this regard?
Hi,
See the original link talking about the Genesis OTA system.

Also, just in the last couple of days, Hyundai has confirmed a refresh of the Ioniq 5 (2023 model) with a slightly bigger battery pack (77.4kWH) and expanded OTA that includes driving and safety characteristics beyond the infotainment system. I have not seen anything specifically about a hardware change, though. The change might be the move to the nVidia Drive chip (Orin I guess) or it could be something else that enables expanded OTA deployment capability.

The mid-year improvement might be synced with the main Ioniq 5 launch in North America. In Korea and Europe it might be the difference between 2022 vs 2023 models.

I think the quick mid-year change for Ioniq 5 bodes well for a similar Kia EV6 move.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
Hi,
See the original link talking about the Genesis OTA system.

Also, just in the last couple of days, Hyundai has confirmed a refresh of the Ioniq 5 (2023 model) with a slightly bigger battery pack (77.4kWH) and expanded OTA that includes driving and safety characteristics beyond the infotainment system. I have not seen anything specifically about a hardware change, though. The change might be the move to the nVidia Drive chip (Orin I guess) or it could be something else that enables expanded OTA deployment capability.

The mid-year improvement might be synced with the main Ioniq 5 launch in North America. In Korea and Europe it might be the difference between 2022 vs 2023 models.

I think the quick mid-year change for Ioniq 5 bodes well for a similar Kia EV6 move.
Then perhaps I should pass on my FE? 😩😠
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Did you have to pay a cancellation fee?
No. Initially he wanted 10.000 DKK. I went home, at send him a long email, explaining the rules.
He has to dokument a loss. So i gave him 2 options. Cancel the order now, at get it out of the way for both of us.
Or wait for the car to arrive, and then have him sell it, and then document a loss if he has any. He picked the first option :)

But the polestar is like 500k now with 2 packs - before it was like 450k?
480.000 with dual motor and pilot + plus packs.
The GT-line is 440.000
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #60 ·
FWIW, here is an article with interesting details on the nDrive hardware in the Genesis GV60.
If somebody is willing to do a tear down on their EV6, ...

For the techy folks, the OS stack for OEM auto applications is QNX (gauge cluster ...), Linux, and Android. The Linux layer is likely handling sensor inputs, modeling, learning and inference. That is a clear path towards L4 autonomous implementations. Prob enough compute and memory to go a long ways. Android is presumably the UI layer and bridge to external services (mapping, music, ...).

This larger picture reinforces the importance of OTA in a car's value proposition.
 
41 - 60 of 96 Posts
Top