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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
See that the Mach E can do Plug and Charge or the other name Plug and Pay which follows the ISO 15118 standard. I saw that the Ioniq 5 is supposed to support this, but am not sure if the EV6 does. Anyone have confirmation on if it will allow for this? I would call it a nice to have and with Tesla opening up charging in the near future I think it will be important.
 

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See that the Mach E can do Plug and Charge or the other name Plug and Pay which follows the ISO 15118 standard. I saw that the Ioniq 5 is supposed to support this, but am not sure if the EV6 does. Anyone have confirmation on if it will allow for this? I would call it a nice to have and with Tesla opening up charging in the near future I think it will be important.
Is the EV6 getting free EA charging like the Ioniq 5?


If so... I can imagine they would support P&C

with Tesla opening up charging in the near future I think it will be important.
1. I don't think Tesla stations support P&C.
2. Tesla is not opening up US Superchargers without massive government subsidies. I dug into various EV charging companies in the US and it's basically a giant money losing business. They all aim to be the biggest hardware + software service producer and use the electricity as a loss-leader of sorts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Is the EV6 getting free EA charging like the Ioniq 5?


If so... I can imagine they would support P&C
I'm not sure if they will be doing the EA 2 years deal, but wouldn't complain if they did. Think Kia and Hyundai are using the same playbook on this. Doesn't necessarily mean they will offer P&C since you can still use the app, but having P&C would be a very nice bonus.

1. I don't think Tesla stations support P&C.
2. Tesla is not opening up US Superchargers without massive government subsidies. I dug into various EV charging companies in the US and it's basically a giant money losing business. They all aim to be the biggest hardware + software service producer and use the electricity as a loss-leader of sorts.
Tesla does P&C but with their own proprietary protocol. Considering Tesla drivers pay to use the Superchargers I'm sure there are accounts linked to the car. EA is the same way with P&C and going forward I hope to see more do that. Yeah, still gotta have an EA account, EVGO account, etc. But, it's a nice convenience. That said, I would expect Tesla can OTA their cars to the ISO 15118 standard communication. Not like they don't have software nailed down.

I'm sure Tesla is testing the waters to see about getting money for chargers. They're expensive and a pot of money is floating out there. If that get's them to open up and install CCS plugs, cool. I'm all for it as that just gives us more options for charging. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are money losing right now. Honestly, that's like gas stations almost with how they don't make money on the gas really, but on what's inside. I'm sure these DCFC charging stations will model themselves the same way.
 

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I'm sure Tesla is testing the waters to see about getting money for chargers. They're expensive and a pot of money is floating out there. If that get's them to open up and install CCS plugs, cool. I'm all for it as that just gives us more options for charging. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are money losing right now. Honestly, that's like gas stations almost with how they don't make money on the gas really, but on what's inside. I'm sure these DCFC charging stations will model themselves the same way.
The reasons you've listed above is why I think the SC network will remain closed unless the EV bill gets passed (and that means Tesla cars will be eligible for $7500 credit again). The EV charging companies and Tesla... are all willing to lose money on the charging and make profit (potential for the EV charging companies since they are all in growth money and not profitable) on other areas. For Tesla, it's the cars. For EA/EVGo/ChargePoint, it's being the hardware/software maker for fleets, corporations, etc.

I have serious doubts EV subsidies will happen (in the next 6-12 months) given all sorts of resistance so folks should assume they will be using EA/EVGo for a while.

NOTE: I have free EA charging from my ID.4. I would hate to pay for the crappy service/experience. I fully expect them to go bankrupt once the VW settlement money runs out in 4-5 years... then somebody like Ford or GM might buy the dead carcass and fix the system.
 

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And they control the main nationwide (non-Tesla) charging network. Sad. It's time for Ford, GM, Hyundai/Kia to start building chargers or throwing money into EA to fix their reliability problems.
Well, EA is actually not the main network. For DC fast charging, there are only 664 EA stations in the US where their are over 3,600 OTHER DC chargers available from other companies like EVGo and such. Tesla has 1,100 additional DC chargers that is not included in that 3,600 count.

That said, Kia is actually investing in EVGo at the current point in time and has been in talks with Ionity for a while about ideas as well.
 

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Well, EA is actually not the main network. For DC fast charging, there are only 664 EA stations in the US where their are over 3,600 OTHER DC chargers available from other companies like EVGo and such. Tesla has 1,100 additional DC chargers that is not included in that 3,600 count.

That said, Kia is actually investing in EVGo at the current point in time and has been in talks with Ionity for a while about ideas as well.
There are 5x number of EVGos than EAs where I live but here is the problem "not all DC fast charging is the same". EVGo is usually 50 kW where I am and the way they bill (per minute due to state regulations) makes it more expensive than gas. And they are not on main throughways. EA somehow is an electric utility company because they can bill by kWh and is much cheaper than EVGo + gas.

So while there are more non-EA DC chargers...in practice they aren't that useful. EVGo centers have 1-2 chargers at most. They often pathetic in size. EA usually has 4 stations at least, 6+ normally.

I dare somebody try to drive across the US with EVGo. They'd spend more time making sidetrips using 50 kW chargers that might be broken. EVGo isn't more reliable than EA in my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The reasons you've listed above is why I think the SC network will remain closed unless the EV bill gets passed (and that means Tesla cars will be eligible for $7500 credit again). The EV charging companies and Tesla... are all willing to lose money on the charging and make profit (potential for the EV charging companies since they are all in growth money and not profitable) on other areas. For Tesla, it's the cars. For EA/EVGo/ChargePoint, it's being the hardware/software maker for fleets, corporations, etc.

I have serious doubts EV subsidies will happen (in the next 6-12 months) given all sorts of resistance so folks should assume they will be using EA/EVGo for a while.

NOTE: I have free EA charging from my ID.4. I would hate to pay for the crappy service/experience. I fully expect them to go bankrupt once the VW settlement money runs out in 4-5 years... then somebody like Ford or GM might buy the dead carcass and fix the system.
Well, the $7500 credit would help Tesla be competitive on price with the other upcoming vehicles. Can't fault them for wanting to have it back, especially in light of the fact that they only sell EVs. While there is resistance to the subsidies happening, there is also a strong push for it to happen. Just waiting to see.

As for EA itself. I can't say that I've had a bad experience using them myself. Traveled from New England to FL and back using them and really the only gripe I had was my Bolts max charge rate of 50kW. I think the biggest improvement EA did was replacing the crappy units with the Signet. Now, how they did that was messed up. All that said they seem to be making improvements, albeit slowly.
And they control the main nationwide (non-Tesla) charging network. Sad. It's time for Ford, GM, Hyundai/Kia to start building chargers or throwing money into EA to fix their reliability problems.
Well, Ford just announced "charge angels" being sent out to identify failed chargers and push for them to be fixed. So, looks like we're getting something, which is nice. Seems like Ford is moving in the direction of all in. More than I can say than what we've seen from GM since the Bolt has been out since 2016 and we see how that's gone... I'm hoping this "charge angels" does lead to improvements. Even better if they maybe invested in EA and got the direction of that ship moving a bit more solidly.
There are 5x number of EVGos than EAs where I live but here is the problem "not all DC fast charging is the same". EVGo is usually 50 kW where I am and the way they bill (per minute due to state regulations) makes it more expensive than gas. And they are not on main throughways. EA somehow is an electric utility company because they can bill by kWh and is much cheaper than EVGo + gas.

So while there are more non-EA DC chargers...in practice they aren't that useful. EVGo centers have 1-2 chargers at most. They often pathetic in size. EA usually has 4 stations at least, 6+ normally.

I dare somebody try to drive across the US with EVGo. They'd spend more time making sidetrips using 50 kW chargers that might be broken. EVGo isn't more reliable than EA in my experience.
You could technically use just EVGO, but as you said the locations of them are not ideal for travel. Plus the fact that many are 1 head units. Now with the EV6 many EVGo would be painful to use at the typical charge speed of 50kW. EA is primary for 100kW+ charging rates. That said, we do now have some EVGo units that can charge at 100kW+ rates with some up to 200kW. But those are not all over yet. I hope they keep replacing the old 50kW units with 4 or more 150kW+ units. Also fix their locations of them, no more front parking areas at malls or the like where they are highly likely to be ICEd.
 

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Well, Ford just announced "charge angels" being sent out to identify failed chargers and push for them to be fixed. So, looks like we're getting something, which is nice. Seems like Ford is moving in the direction of all in.
And how likely are station owners willing to fix the broken stations? I'm seeing the opposite happen... broken stations stay broken because there's no money to buy new hardware (it's very costly to purchase these chargers) and providing electricity is a money-losing operation anyhow.

The EV charging business is so broken. Ford/GM/Hyundai/Kia/Toyota need to step and help fund it... otherwise you are relying on government subsidies which may not happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
And how likely are station owners willing to fix the broken stations? I'm seeing the opposite happen... broken stations stay broken because there's no money to buy new hardware (it's very costly to purchase these chargers) and providing electricity is a money-losing operation anyhow.

The EV charging business is so broken. Ford/GM/Hyundai/Kia/Toyota need to step and help fund it... otherwise you are relying on government subsidies which may not happen.
🤷‍♂️Dunno how willing they are overall. I have seen repair crews come out to repair a station that was broken while I was charging. I report broken stations when I find them. All I can do. I will say, it's a start with one manufacture doing something. If they follow through it will be more than lip service.

I'm sure you want Ford or whoever to buy EA and do something with it. If that happens, cool. I would also just be happy if EA continues to improve and as more EVs get on the road and more use them and others we see continued improvements. I think as we slowly get more Evs available more investors will step in for these stations.
 

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This article indicates that E-GMP vehicles are plug & charge capable: https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/24/tritium-to-supply-dc-charging-stations-to-elexent-by-renault/

Another article more specific to Hyundai group, since it's their own charging stations. It also states that E-GMP vehicles will Plug & Charge at these stations. This article doesn't specifically mention ISO 15118, but the first article does. https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/24/hyundai-installs-ultra-rapid-charging-network-e-pit-in-korea/
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This article indicates that E-GMP vehicles are plug & charge capable: https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/24/tritium-to-supply-dc-charging-stations-to-elexent-by-renault/

Another article more specific to Hyundai group, since it's their own charging stations. It also states that E-GMP vehicles will Plug & Charge at these stations. This article doesn't specifically mention ISO 15118, but the first article does. https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/24/hyundai-installs-ultra-rapid-charging-network-e-pit-in-korea/
I would say that both those articles answer the question. Awesome and thank you.(y)
 

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They really need to get this infrastructure bill passed to get more EV charging sites built out. As noted, EA and Tesla are the 2 brands I know of that have sites that will allow you to travel across the country with fast chargers at the moment. EVGO and ChargePoint has some charging stations in cities but as noted, they are 50 kWh sites or less. and they don't have more than 1 or 2 per site in my area. Going up 17 to Sedona or Flagstaff from Phoenix, there is 1 site in between at Anthem with 4 units, since April, there have been 2 (both 350 kWh units) that are offline and the other 2 (150 kWh) units are not providing max power. I got up to 38 kw max on one and the other 35. The most I have seen anyone reported on PlugShare is 79 kw last week. This sort of thing puts a damper on any long distance travel up this route, since you will need that charge to go over the mountain. Coming down from Sedona (lots of Tesla sites, a few level 2 sites and level1 at hotels) or Flagstaff (EA site here), you will be fine as you are coming down the mountain and a full charge will allow you to bypass Anthem and get to an EA site in the PHX metro area.

Going out to San Diego on 8, the station at El Centro also has some issues and yep, you guessed it, only station before going up that mountain before getting to El Cajon, if you suffer from lead foot syndrome and need another charge. What's surprising is that no one thought about building a canopy to block the sun at these stations. Seems like a good opportunity to add one and also place some solar panels on top to provide lighting at night.
 
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