Plug and Charge

voxel said:

Is the EV6 getting free EA charging like the Ioniq 5?

Hyundai IONIQ 5 To Come With 2 Years Of Free Charging On Electrify America Network

We examine the announcement that Hyundai and Electrify America have agreed to offer Ioniq 5 owners 2 years of free charging on the Electrify America network.

insideevs.com

If so... I can imagine they would support P&C

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I'm not sure if they will be doing the EA 2 years deal, but wouldn't complain if they did. Think Kia and Hyundai are using the same playbook on this. Doesn't necessarily mean they will offer P&C since you can still use the app, but having P&C would be a very nice bonus.

voxel said:

1. I don't think Tesla stations support P&C.
2. Tesla is not opening up US Superchargers without massive government subsidies. I dug into various EV charging companies in the US and it's basically a giant money losing business. They all aim to be the biggest hardware + software service producer and use the electricity as a loss-leader of sorts.

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Tesla does P&C but with their own proprietary protocol. Considering Tesla drivers pay to use the Superchargers I'm sure there are accounts linked to the car. EA is the same way with P&C and going forward I hope to see more do that. Yeah, still gotta have an EA account, EVGO account, etc. But, it's a nice convenience. That said, I would expect Tesla can OTA their cars to the ISO 15118 standard communication. Not like they don't have software nailed down.

I'm sure Tesla is testing the waters to see about getting money for chargers. They're expensive and a pot of money is floating out there. If that get's them to open up and install CCS plugs, cool. I'm all for it as that just gives us more options for charging. All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are money losing right now. Honestly, that's like gas stations almost with how they don't make money on the gas really, but on what's inside. I'm sure these DCFC charging stations will model themselves the same way.

voxel said:

The reasons you've listed above is why I think the SC network will remain closed unless the EV bill gets passed (and that means Tesla cars will be eligible for $7500 credit again). The EV charging companies and Tesla... are all willing to lose money on the charging and make profit (potential for the EV charging companies since they are all in growth money and not profitable) on other areas. For Tesla, it's the cars. For EA/EVGo/ChargePoint, it's being the hardware/software maker for fleets, corporations, etc.

I have serious doubts EV subsidies will happen (in the next 6-12 months) given all sorts of resistance so folks should assume they will be using EA/EVGo for a while.

NOTE: I have free EA charging from my ID.4. I would hate to pay for the crappy service/experience. I fully expect them to go bankrupt once the VW settlement money runs out in 4-5 years... then somebody like Ford or GM might buy the dead carcass and fix the system.

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Well, the $7500 credit would help Tesla be competitive on price with the other upcoming vehicles. Can't fault them for wanting to have it back, especially in light of the fact that they only sell EVs. While there is resistance to the subsidies happening, there is also a strong push for it to happen. Just waiting to see.

As for EA itself. I can't say that I've had a bad experience using them myself. Traveled from New England to FL and back using them and really the only gripe I had was my Bolts max charge rate of 50kW. I think the biggest improvement EA did was replacing the crappy units with the Signet. Now, how they did that was messed up. All that said they seem to be making improvements, albeit slowly.

voxel said:

And they control the main nationwide (non-Tesla) charging network. Sad. It's time for Ford, GM, Hyundai/Kia to start building chargers or throwing money into EA to fix their reliability problems.

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Well, Ford just announced "charge angels" being sent out to identify failed chargers and push for them to be fixed. So, looks like we're getting something, which is nice. Seems like Ford is moving in the direction of all in. More than I can say than what we've seen from GM since the Bolt has been out since 2016 and we see how that's gone... I'm hoping this "charge angels" does lead to improvements. Even better if they maybe invested in EA and got the direction of that ship moving a bit more solidly.

voxel said:

There are 5x number of EVGos than EAs where I live but here is the problem "not all DC fast charging is the same". EVGo is usually 50 kW where I am and the way they bill (per minute due to state regulations) makes it more expensive than gas. And they are not on main throughways. EA somehow is an electric utility company because they can bill by kWh and is much cheaper than EVGo + gas.

So while there are more non-EA DC chargers...in practice they aren't that useful. EVGo centers have 1-2 chargers at most. They often pathetic in size. EA usually has 4 stations at least, 6+ normally.

I dare somebody try to drive across the US with EVGo. They'd spend more time making sidetrips using 50 kW chargers that might be broken. EVGo isn't more reliable than EA in my experience.

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You could technically use just EVGO, but as you said the locations of them are not ideal for travel. Plus the fact that many are 1 head units. Now with the EV6 many EVGo would be painful to use at the typical charge speed of 50kW. EA is primary for 100kW+ charging rates. That said, we do now have some EVGo units that can charge at 100kW+ rates with some up to 200kW. But those are not all over yet. I hope they keep replacing the old 50kW units with 4 or more 150kW+ units. Also fix their locations of them, no more front parking areas at malls or the like where they are highly likely to be ICEd.

They really need to get this infrastructure bill passed to get more EV charging sites built out. As noted, EA and Tesla are the 2 brands I know of that have sites that will allow you to travel across the country with fast chargers at the moment. EVGO and ChargePoint has some charging stations in cities but as noted, they are 50 kWh sites or less. and they don't have more than 1 or 2 per site in my area. Going up 17 to Sedona or Flagstaff from Phoenix, there is 1 site in between at Anthem with 4 units, since April, there have been 2 (both 350 kWh units) that are offline and the other 2 (150 kWh) units are not providing max power. I got up to 38 kw max on one and the other 35. The most I have seen anyone reported on PlugShare is 79 kw last week. This sort of thing puts a damper on any long distance travel up this route, since you will need that charge to go over the mountain. Coming down from Sedona (lots of Tesla sites, a few level 2 sites and level1 at hotels) or Flagstaff (EA site here), you will be fine as you are coming down the mountain and a full charge will allow you to bypass Anthem and get to an EA site in the PHX metro area.

Going out to San Diego on 8, the station at El Centro also has some issues and yep, you guessed it, only station before going up that mountain before getting to El Cajon, if you suffer from lead foot syndrome and need another charge. What's surprising is that no one thought about building a canopy to block the sun at these stations. Seems like a good opportunity to add one and also place some solar panels on top to provide lighting at night.

Now that I’m back on Electrify America network with the Mach-E, I wish they’d go bankrupt and let somebody else build the network. It’s obvious they are incompetent. Giving them a dime from the $7.5B EV charging fund would be a mistake. It’s like giving money to Emergent BioSolutions… you might as well throw money into a hole.

In my brief Model Y ownership, all superchargers worked flawlessly. You plug, it charges. The Tesla navigation system even preconditions the battery before arrival and tells you have many stalls are free and even limits you to 80% charge in busy locations. What does EA do? Nothing. Heck, multiple times I experienced chargers stalls that have been ICEed or EVs left idling past their limit. My Mach-E has a terrible charge curve after 80% (sub 9kW)… I could hog the stall for two hours and only be billed $5. EA stalls are often randomly broken or charge slowly. I never experienced this while visiting a dozen different Tesla superchargers. EA doesn’t care. They are ran like a non profit with four funding cycles from the $2B VW settlement. They build the chargers and that’s it. They are hemorrhaging money otherwise.

EA can’t go bankrupt fast enough.

voxel said:

Now that I’m back on Electrify America network with the Mach-E, I wish they’d go bankrupt and let somebody else build the network. It’s obvious they are incompetent. Giving them a dime from the $7.5B EV charging fund would be a mistake. It’s like giving money to Emergent BioSolutions… you might as well throw money into a hole.

In my brief Model Y ownership, all superchargers worked flawlessly. You plug, it charges. The Tesla navigation system even preconditions the battery before arrival and tells you have many stalls are free and even limits you to 80% charge in busy locations. What does EA do? Nothing. Heck, multiple times I experienced chargers stalls that have been ICEed or EVs left idling past their limit. My Mach-E has a terrible charge curve after 80% (sub 9kW)… I could hog the stall for two hours and only be billed $5. EA stalls are often randomly broken or charge slowly. I never experienced this while visiting a dozen different Tesla superchargers. EA doesn’t care. They are ran like a non profit with four funding cycles from the $2B VW settlement. They build the chargers and that’s it. They are hemorrhaging money otherwise.

EA can’t go bankrupt fast enough.

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Based on the stats.... it may not be long. I have said for years now that VW will probably not survive their misdeeds...