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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I drove on the motorway for an hour last night and when I stopped to charge at 20% SOC the battery was still only about 5 degrees C. It was -4 degrees C last night. So "normal" driving doesn't always guarantee a warm battery for optimal charging. The car got to 25 degrees C at about 70% SOC.
Silly I know,but, what is SOC?
 

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It was almost certainly the temperature that was the problem. I don't know how the steps in Fahrenheit are programmed, but in the Celsius countries the charging power jumps every 5 degrees, i.e. at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 (depending on the batterie cell with the lowest temperature).
Only when it reaches 25 degrees (77 degrees Fahrenheit) and a maximum of 35 degrees (95 degrees Fahrenheit) are you have the optimal charging power.

With 51 degrees Fahrenheit you are right on the 10 degree threshold. That means if the battery was only 49 degrees Fahrenheit, then you charge with less than 70kW after a very short starting peak.
Of course, the SOC also has an impact on the charging performance.
In other words, you should drive to the charging station with the lowest possible SOC (State of Charge), if you were not able to preheat the battery or it was not at 25 degrees (77 degrees Fahrenheit) due to the ambient temperature, then you heat it up particularly quickly through the charging and the battery heating and you can then see a really good charging curve with a peak of 230kW around 54% SOC, you will never reach the optimum 242kW, for this the temperature in the battery must have been right from the start.

Which is also important. If your battery, i.e. the hottest cell, gets warmer than 35 degrees (95 degrees Fahrenheit), the engine performance is drastically reduced. You then only have 25kW. It feels like driving with the handbrake on. Dangerously, this isn't displayed anywhere, hence my warning.

To summarize it. Your charging performance doesn't surprise me and temperature has a drastic impact on charging performance as long as the ambient temperature is below 20 degrees (68 degrees Fahrenheit).
I doubt the temp was much different 2 weeks ago. The charge value never got higher than 45kW.
 

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2021 KIA Niro EV Premium
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As 'Storm' said in his comments that a lower SOC, down around 20% allows for faster charging. The action of putting energy in, ie charging/Regen, is what warms a battery. The early ni-cads were very susceptible to thermal runaway, fire, while charging.
No currently produced EV can charge straight line max rate continuously, just not going to happen.
 

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Just look at the power output while driving. For 110 km/h it needs only 25kW. Not enough to heat up anything.
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
I'll check when next driving. I'm wondering if everyone knows how to do this. I've found by going to the home page on the dash, swiping rightwards to the car display, then touching the car image it brings up another car image with current charged value and range with heating on, if on, and heating off. Then by pressing the dashes and selecting battery condition, I think, it shows 4 areas where energy is being consumed. Driving, car electronics, battery care, and climate. Apologies if saying how to suck eggs, or if you can explain better 馃憤
 

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I think, it shows 4 areas where energy is being consumed. Driving, car electronics, battery care, and climate. Apologies if saying how to suck eggs, or if you can explain better 馃憤
Yes. You are right.
In the following picture you can see that I used 75% of the energy for driving (Fahrbetrieb), 8% for air conditioning (Klimaanalge), 3% for electronics and 14% for battery care.
In this display you only see the performance while driving, not the consumption.

Vehicle Gadget Personal luxury car Font Automotive design


If, for example, 25kW is displayed when driving, this means that the motor is drawing 25kW of power from the battery. If he does this over e.g. 100 kilometers over an hour, this results in a consumption of 25kWh/100km.
During the pre-conditioning (battery care) during the pre-heating process there is usually 4.5 - 5kW. This means that if the battery heater runs for 1 hour, 4.5 - 5 kWh are consumed.

Most of the time, the preconditioning runs for 50 minutes, i.e. I consume 5kW of power for 50 minutes = 4.2kWh and have been able to warm up the battery by about 15 degrees during this time.

I hope that clarifies the background better?
 

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Speed and convenience are wonderful things.
But don't loose track of the big picture that Kia is primarily protecting you.
You do not want a damaged cell in your car!
Daily performance degrades and future used car sale price will depend
heavily on battery quality.
Allow your car to protect itself and you.馃槆
 

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so it shouldnt claim it's a 180 if you can only get 60, at most.
I agree, unfortunately you see this a lot where upgraded chargers have been put in without suitable grid upgrades.
I still think it would be great if EV manufacturers could add a display to show how much power the car is trying to request and then charger manufacturers could do the same for how much power they're trying to get from the grid.
 
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Here in Ontario Canada they charge by the minute. So imagine driving up in winter and sitting there waiting for the car to draw a reasonable amount of energy? To add insult to injury, I've heard that Electrify Canada charges you a different rate depending on what your car can theoretically accept. So 0-350kW is charged at 57c per minute even if your car is getting 60kW because it's cold out. 0-90kW is 27c. What's the problem with actually charging per kW???

Oh well, I'm kind of glad the BEVs are trickling into Canada. Nobody can seem to get one. And the prices are going through the roof. I think in many places the charging is so expensive it's as much as just filling with petrol when you compare miles/kms you get per dollar spent.
 

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2022 Snow White EV6 Light (58 kWh RWD)
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It's crazy that people will spend over $50,000+ on a vehicle and not fully research the purchase. I spent months on EV forums, researching all EVs strengths and weaknesses before choosing the EV6. I knew exactly what I had bought and that range and charging speeds would be diminished in cold conditions. I know the DCFCs in my area as well as the ones in route to my favorite distant destinations. This vehicle is performing EXACTLY within its advertised abilities. It might not be meeting your expectations, but that's only because you failed to perform due diligence on a $50,000+ purchase. That's on you.
There were also rumblings of preconditioning being an update when I bought the car. So I bought on a hope. Now, the reason I'm pissed off now, and believe me I think it's moronic the way US Kia is treating this situation, is that a fix is available in Germany for the car, a fix is available in the US for the IONIQ 5, and so far based exactly zero press relases or general public statements, and me visiting a dealer and calling two, and a call to Kia's Customer Service number I have gotten the following response: Nada. So Kia is feining stupidity or they are actually ignorant. Either is annoying.

And by the way you overpaid, I only spent $42.5k plus tax. Sorry about your luck, that's on you.
 

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Yes. You are right.
In the following picture you can see that I used 75% of the energy for driving (Fahrbetrieb), 8% for air conditioning (Klimaanalge), 3% for electronics and 14% for battery care.
In this display you only see the performance while driving, not the consumption.

View attachment 11274

If, for example, 25kW is displayed when driving, this means that the motor is drawing 25kW of power from the battery. If he does this over e.g. 100 kilometers over an hour, this results in a consumption of 25kWh/100km.
During the pre-conditioning (battery care) during the pre-heating process there is usually 4.5 - 5kW. This means that if the battery heater runs for 1 hour, 4.5 - 5 kWh are consumed.

Most of the time, the preconditioning runs for 50 minutes, i.e. I consume 5kW of power for 50 minutes = 4.2kWh and have been able to warm up the battery by about 15 degrees during this time.

I hope that clarifies the background better?
Is there a limitation for the number of minutes the preconditioning will run?

There is only the SOC limitation of >24% and it will run until battery temp achieves >20C from the press release "The upgrade process encompasses the satellite navigation system, necessary because the conditioning feature automatically preheats the EV6鈥檚 battery when the driver sets a DC fast charger as a destination into the navigation system, the battery temperature is below 21 degrees, and the state-of-charge is 24% or higher. The conditioning deactivates automatically when the battery reaches its optimal operating temperature. After that, customers can experience the improved charging performance."
-source Kia in the EU: Kia offers EV6 software update for faster cold-weather charging
 

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2022 Snow White EV6 Light (58 kWh RWD)
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Speed and convenience are wonderful things.
But don't loose track of the big picture that Kia is primarily protecting you.
You do not want a damaged cell in your car!
Daily performance degrades and future used car sale price will depend
heavily on battery quality.
Allow your car to protect itself and you.馃槆
So by this logic 2022 cars are more valuable than 2023 cars because the way they deal with winter is to coldgate and have no provision to bring the battery up to room temperature?
And by this logic 2023 cars are less valuable and will degrade more because there is a damaging process involved when warming the pack from freezing temperatures to room temperature?

Alternatively I would argue Kia were clueless when they did the software tuning on the early EV6 cars and now they've become less clueless and fixed the error in their ways with the 2023 cars. I'm speculating, but apparently Rimac didn't do enough cold testing for them when they did the initial consulting on this 800 V architecture and we are all seeing the results. Rimac was bought by Porsche and has since severed their relationship as an EV consultatant with the Hyundai/Kia companies.
 

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And by the way you overpaid, I only spent $42.5k plus tax. Sorry about your luck, that's on you.
I'm sorry, did I state how much I paid for my car?? The Out the Door price for EV6s has most definitely been over $50k for most buyers, so I used that for a reference.
You paid $42.5k for your EV6? Must have been the "Light" model that has so little demand for obvious reasons. It's not even available for 2023.
I have no doubt that the preconditioning update will be announced eventually for the US market, but you'll need to be patient.
 

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Here in Ontario Canada they charge by the minute. So imagine driving up in winter and sitting there waiting for the car to draw a reasonable amount of energy? To add insult to injury, I've heard that Electrify Canada charges you a different rate depending on what your car can theoretically accept. So 0-350kW is charged at 57c per minute even if your car is getting 60kW because it's cold out. 0-90kW is 27c. What's the problem with actually charging per kW???
I know the problem. My cheapest charging card also bills per minute, so that in the best case I only pay 9 cents instead of the usual 60 cents per kWh. If the charging power falls below 60kW, I am around 30 cents and therefore on par with the Kia special deal that Kia has made with IONITY (comparable to Electrify Canada).
That's why it's very important for me that the battery has at least 10 degrees, preferably 20 degrees of course, so that I can charge the entire charging curve up to 84%.

Even if the charging costs have just increased massively in Germany, I am currently still on a comparable level with a combustion engine. Thanks to my good charging strategy (I only use public charging), it's still at half of that. Because it happens again and again today that I don't have to pay at all because charges are not billed due to technical problems and "disappear".

There were also rumblings of preconditioning being an update when I bought the car. So I bought on a hope. Now, the reason I'm pissed off now, and believe me I think it's moronic the way US Kia is treating this situation, is that a fix is available in Germany for the car, a fix is available in the US for the IONIQ 5, and so far based exactly zero press relases or general public statements, and me visiting a dealer and calling two, and a call to Kia's Customer Service number I have gotten the following response: Nada. So Kia is feining stupidity or they are actually ignorant. Either is annoying.
That is really annoying. I also bought my EV6 based on the rumors because without preconditioning it wasn't an option for me. At the time of the purchase decision, I regularly commuted 900 kilometers on the Autobahn and wanted to save around 1 hour driving time per route with the EV 6 compared to my Tesla Model S75.
This hour saving is solely due to the faster charging compared to the Model S and without preconditioning it would have come out at the same time or worse.

Now things have turned out differently. Now I don't commute anymore 900 kilometers but only charge on public charger. I also need the preconditioning for that, without it I would stand at the charging station at least twice as long, even though my Kia dealer said that the charging time in winter should be only 10 minutes longer from 10% to 80% than in summer.

What I don't understand about the whole topic is why Kia / Hyundai are so inexperienced here. They have both been developing electric cars for many years and have gained experience with the IONIQ classic and the e-Niro.

Then even the hardware is built into the car so that the battery can be heated, but the software can't do that?!

What I've found out via background talks is that Kia has a very strange approach here. Kia would rather save energy than use it for heating.

In my consultations, I made it very clear that as an e-car driver - especially on long journeys - I always only have the travel time in mind (time for the journey plus for charging) and I don't care whether I use 5kWh more per charge or not, the main thing is that I can compensate for the additional energy by charging faster.

I really don't understand why the update for the preconditioning is now being distributed so slowly worldwide and I hope that the wait will soon be over for you.
 

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You paid $42.5k for your EV6? Must have been the "Light" model that has so little demand for obvious reasons. It's not even available for 2023.
I have no doubt that the preconditioning update will be announced eventually for the US market, but you'll need to be patient.
The signature states that he drives the 58 kWh model. For the small battery, is the price also 50,000?
 
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