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Solar panels & lithium battery

967 Views 37 Replies 13 Participants Last post by JK-KIAEV6, 2 h ago

songkrhan

Discussion Starter · 8 d ago

Hi folks
I am thinking if installing some solar panels & a lithium battery to help/provide the electricity for my EV6 (when I get it) does anyone have the panels and battery installed and do they provide adequate electricity to charge your vehicle. Are these panels and batteries worth while or is the cost too great to be beneficial.

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dscoti

· #2 · 8 d ago

A quick search for solar turns up several discussions. Such as:

www.kiaevforums.com

Kia EV6 - UK

Hi Everyone, I thought I would start up a thread specifically for UK-based subscribers. I have recently ordered a Kia EV6 GT-Line S 4WD in Matt grey with Heat Pump. I had originally signified my interest by paying a £100 refundable deposit (returned last week direct from Kia). On the 4th May...

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

EV Charger that allows for solar

Hello All. I am having a 10kw solar system installed at my home in Upstate NY. I am wondering if anyone has experience using an EV Charger that allows you to charge solar only? Wallbox says it does this, but I have tried searching for how this works and if it works well. If you have...

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

Charger + Solar Optimization

Is anyone aware of a hybrid or smart charger solution that will allow your solar panels to charge your car during the day with excess solar power? My apologies if this was covered in another thread but I thought I saw reference to a way to better leverage your solar power than pumping it into...

www.kiaevforums.com

www.kiaevforums.com

and more. The first link is UK specific and goes to a post by @Logicpro8

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AndyM

· #3 · 8 d ago

I don't know how much batteries are in the UK, but still very expensive in Australia, and to be effective you'd need a fair amount of kWh. I'm in the northern parts as well so more sun hours available. It probably depends on a number of things for you too, are you at home and able to charge during the day. how far do you travel daily, will there be much shading, what's your budget etc. If you go down the battery path and would want to charge the car at a reasonable rate ie 7kW you'd need a rather expensive inverter. May be better off getting the largest solar system you can afford and trying to charge direct when you can, and export the rest for use or credits later ?

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Flyingorthopod

· #4 · 8 d ago

Yes they are very worthwhile in combination with a tariff like Intelligent Octopus as you end up using almost no peak electricity especially in summer.

A Zappi charger will nicely charge your car with whatever excess solar you have. On a modestly sunny day leaving my car plugged in charges it enough for a day or two commuting so worthwhile

Paul EV6

· #5 · 8 d ago

I have a solar array producing in excess of 10Kwh using 24 x Sunpower Maxeon 3 420W all black solar panels with a 40 year guarantee which have only recently been installed (April 2023) it has an 8KWh invertor with a 25 year guarantee. I also have a Tesla 13.5 Kwh battery being installed on 12 June 2023 which will capture the power during the day so it can be used it at night. This should be adequate to charge the car fully during the day and I can (if required) top up from the battery at night should I require it say for a longer journey or to up the SOC to a maximum. In the short space of time since the installation, I have exported a huge amount to the UK grid, on some days more than 60Kwh!!
I'm also linking up the hot water to the solar in August when I have a new boiler and HW tank fitted in my loft space. I have also recently changed over gas ovens and hob cooking to full electric. So....I should be fairly self sufficient for a large part of the year. Current estimates show 97% self sufficiency but I am, a little sceptical. Only time will be proof of the actual usage but things are looking very good.
I fully expect free driving miles from early spring to late autumn which will provide large savings against the ever increasing petrol pumps. NOTE: I'm expecting delivery of my EV6 on 05th July 2023. I also have a Myeneri Zappi 2 7Kw charger. As I'm retired now (only just and early retirement at that) I drive much much less and only have a drive up to London from Southampton about once a month so this will not require charging stops as its only 200 miles.
Hope this helps?
Happy and safe driving

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billcarter

· #6 · 8 d ago

Ten years ago we installed 23 panels which were rated to produce 2605 kW. Five years later we had a 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall battery installed. The panel system is most productive here in Maine from late February through September and of late, during days of full sun, is producing 30-35 kWh per day. Daily home power usage varies from 7 to 9 kWh except on days when I charge the car when home usage jumps to around 46-47 kWh charging from 25% to 80%.

Yesterday is a good example of what the system can produce. It was a totally sunny day and production was 34.8 kWh. 4.3 kWh was used by the home while about 30.5 kWh was sent to the grid. Five days ago I charged the car on a partly sunny day. 24.7 kWh was produced by the panels but home usage jumped to 47kWh, 6 of which was from solar while 41 was drawn from the grid although this was offset by almost 18 kWh of solar sent to the grid prior to charging for a net grid use of around 23 kWh.

Winter solar production here is far less than numbers I've mentioned above for optimum months. There is no way that solar can be expected to provide much power for car charging, once daily home usage is accounted for. Even now, I can't claim that solar covers the 40 kWh or so needed to charge from 25% to 80% since on a good day I may see 35kWh at most from the solar array, some of which is used by the home. If I were to choose to dedicate a percentage of Powerwall storage to home use, then an 80% charge of the car could work but I typically keep the Powerwall fully charged as backup for power outages that occasionally occur. Except for three months of the year, I pay the basic minimum of $13 to our power supplier, thanks to banked power that accumulates during the other nine months.

Obviously, a bigger array and having the benefit of new, more efficient panels would make it feasible to regularly charge your car, assuming your daily home usage isn't high. If your electric rates are already high and rising, the cost of a solar installation is a rational choice. You have to weigh your expected usage against expected system output over the course of the year.

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Ian Mac

· #7 · 8 d ago

The key to solar and battery is that it unlocks the benefits of an off peak tariff. We are only just generating enough solar to get 10 to 15 kw into the car on a sunny day. The first 6 to 8 go into the battery and we may be putting on washing etc. The Zappi charger is absolutely key if you want to easily manage all of this. I don't have one and it's a bit of a faff rejigging things.

Bear in mind that if you are out driving, you aren't charging the car on your solar. I know it sounds obvious, but you really need to think about when you can charge and how much. It's worth spreadheeting your estimates.

For me the system is 100% worth it, but not because of the solar charging. In winter my total electric bill was £100 per month with approx 1600 miles of charging. The 8kwh battery was charged off peak at 7.5p. The solar didn't play much of a part at all. It's all about the battery.

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Ianw68

· #8 · 8 d ago

songkrhan said:
Hi folks
I am thinking if installing some solar panels & a lithium battery to help/provide the electricity for my EV6 (when I get it) does anyone have the panels and battery installed and do they provide adequate electricity to charge your vehicle. Are these panels and batteries worth while or is the cost too great to be beneficial.

I had them fitted on January, best thing I ever did.
My April bill left me with zero to pay for gas or elecrtic (dual fuel with Octopus) and they paid me £70 for export, I have also been heating a swimming pool and have not used more that 1 kwh from the grid in a month since Feb.
I have 7.kw panels and 10kw battery system.

Reactions: 1

pss

· #9 · 5 d ago

I live in Southern California where we have reliable sunny days. Even here it is not economically feasable to charge an EV with solar. The hardware, installation costs, maintenance and optional batteries mean there is no payback for the investment.
Buy stocks, bonds, precious metals and use the gains to pay for your charging.

Reactions: 1

Ian Mac

· #10 · 5 d ago

With the cost of electricity in the UK at peak rate, vs the off peak rates available 35p Vs 7.5p per kWh, a solar battery system does actually pay off really quickly. My numbers worked out that over 10 years I save £40,000 on electricity and gas (petrol). The saving from solar charging itself is negligible so I don't factor that into my calculations. This breaks down as £100 per month saved on electric and roughly £300 on fuel. The 5kw of panels and 8kwh battery cost £12k. Over 10 years I'm £28k ahead.

My Tesla shares have lost 60 percent in one year.

Reactions: 1

getakey

· #11 · 5 d ago

pss said:
I live in Southern California where we have reliable sunny days. Even here it is not economically feasable to charge an EV with solar. The hardware, installation costs, maintenance and optional batteries mean there is no payback for the investment.
Buy stocks, bonds, precious metals and use the gains to pay for your charging.

Seriously? Up until NEM3, solar in California typically has a payback in about 5 years. After that its money in the bank. Its not just for charging the EV though. With NEM3, there probably is no payback

JK-KIAEV6

· #12 · 5 d ago

Ian Mac said:
With the cost of electricity in the UK at peak rate, vs the off peak rates available 35p Vs 7.5p per kWh, a solar battery system does actually pay off really quickly. My numbers worked out that over 10 years I save £40,000 on electricity and gas (petrol). The saving from solar charging itself is negligible so I don't factor that into my calculations. This breaks down as £100 per month saved on electric and roughly £300 on fuel. The 5kw of panels and 8kwh battery cost £12k. Over 10 years I'm £28k ahead.

My Tesla shares have lost 60 percent in one year.

Until the prices drop for electricity in the UK which they are in July 23 and then again towards October 23 when the payback time for your outlay will increase against cost of system.

An affectuve system is going to cost around 15K and that's a lot of cost to get back.

My workings were around 5-6 years to break even but if the costs drop of electricity then the payback period will increase.

Now if you could get the system for free and any unused electricity was put back into the grid and credited to the supplier I would sign up straight away but as yet there is no such offer.

I have had two or three installers knock at my door claiming it is money worth spending then when i show them the maths they respond by saying I am right.

If you know where your going to be for the next 5 to 10 years then it maybe worth looking but if like me you do not know what tomorrow brings its too expensive at this present moment.

Personally I would like to see costs drop under 10K before I looked seriously at the systems being offered.

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getakey

· #13 · 5 d ago

JK-KIAEV6 said:
Now if you could get the system for free and any unused electricity was put back into the grid and credited to the supplier I would sign up straight away but as yet there is no such offer.

You don't have "Net Metering" in the UK? We get credits for electricity put back to the Grid. My Peak rate is $.60/kWh and I get credited at that rate when I over produce during Peak times

Ian Mac

· #14 · 4 d ago

getakey said:
You don't have "Net Metering" in the UK? We get credits for electricity put back to the Grid. My Peak rate is $.60/kWh and I get credited at that rate when I over produce during Peak times

There are various tariffs that pay different amount for export, but none that give a stupidly cheap off peak rate AND a high export rate.
The ones that give the cheap off-peak and bad export rates are generally better for high-mileage EV drivers (or so my workings show).

The other part that is difficult to factor in is how much extra energy you can actually use, for example, air conditioning and hot tubs. I have neither of these at the moment, but they would essentially be free to run over the summer months.

As with all of these things, you actually need to do a fair bit of maths to see if works for you.

I managed to get my system installed before inflation really kicked in, so I appreciate that it would probably cost a couple of thousand more today and with electricity prices dropping a bit it does make the payoff calculations different. That being said, I doubt the prices will drop that much and of course each year they will rise again. It wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years time, we are up to 50p/kwh peak rate.

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pss

· #15 · 4 d ago

Ian Mac said:
With the cost of electricity in the UK at peak rate, vs the off peak rates available 35p Vs 7.5p per kWh, a solar battery system does actually pay off really quickly. My numbers worked out that over 10 years I save £40,000 on electricity and gas (petrol). The saving from solar charging itself is negligible so I don't factor that into my calculations. This breaks down as £100 per month saved on electric and roughly £300 on fuel. The 5kw of panels and 8kwh battery cost £12k. Over 10 years I'm £28k ahead.

My Tesla shares have lost 60 percent in one year.

Trying hard not to laugh. 5kW of panels and 8kW of battery won't get you squat (An American word I think?). Look, I sympathize with you, I really do. Your problem is you have a strong desire to save money. Your reality is that you do not know how solar power really works and the kind of system you would need to be able to get any real use to charge a car.
First, cars like the EV6 can charge at a very fast rate using up to 800 volts of DC current. Your home solar system will NOT supply DC current directly to the car. Next, your home solar system of lets say 5kW of panels and 8,000 watts of lithium battery power will need to be couple to an inverter and charge controller or a hybrid inverter with charge controller. In the USA, these will output 120V and 240V. I believe in UK you are outputting 208V? And if you have lets say a 6KW inverter, then the maximum output would be 6,000 watts at 208 volts or just under 29 amps of power. If your batteries are lithium and lets say can safely discharge to 10% capacity each day, then you can get 7000 watts from them, or just about 70 minutes of charging at 208volts and 29 amps. Roughly 21 miles of range a day. But that is only if you start with a full charge on your batteries. And your 5kW of panels is the faceplate rating under ideal circumstances. In reality, count on 4kW and you will need every day 2 hours of ideal sunshine. EVERY DAY just to get 21 miles. If you don't drive your car, then in about 12 days it will be charged up. If it's sunny! And, don't remember, your power is only for your car. Nothing else. Your car has about a 77.9 kW battery capacity and you are giving it a paltry 7kW a day. of course, if you stay home and output all the day's PV to the car, then maybe you could push it to 12 kW for a nice sunny day. But all of this doesn't matter, because you are saving money.
Of course, you missed investing in AI companies and would have maybe millions if you had put the money wisely elsewhere.
Right now, charging from home you EV in a practical matter is a folly for the wealthy, not the consumer looking to save a few bucks.

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Ian Mac

· #16 · 4 d ago

pss said:
Trying hard not to laugh. 5kW of panels and 8kW of battery won't get you squat (An American word I think?). Look, I sympathize with you, I really do. Your problem is you have a strong desire to save money. Your reality is that you do not know how solar power really works and the kind of system you would need to be able to get any real use to charge a car.
First, cars like the EV6 can charge at a very fast rate using up to 800 volts of DC current. Your home solar system will NOT supply DC current directly to the car. Next, your home solar system of lets say 5kW of panels and 8,000 watts of lithium battery power will need to be couple to an inverter and charge controller or a hybrid inverter with charge controller. In the USA, these will output 120V and 240V. I believe in UK you are outputting 208V? And if you have lets say a 6KW inverter, then the maximum output would be 6,000 watts at 208 volts or just under 29 amps of power. If your batteries are lithium and lets say can safely discharge to 10% capacity each day, then you can get 7000 watts from them, or just about 70 minutes of charging at 208volts and 29 amps. Roughly 21 miles of range a day. But that is only if you start with a full charge on your batteries. And your 5kW of panels is the faceplate rating under ideal circumstances. In reality, count on 4kW and you will need every day 2 hours of ideal sunshine. EVERY DAY just to get 21 miles. If you don't drive your car, then in about 12 days it will be charged up. If it's sunny! And, don't remember, your power is only for your car. Nothing else. Your car has about a 77.9 kW battery capacity and you are giving it a paltry 7kW a day. of course, if you stay home and output all the day's PV to the car, then maybe you could push it to 12 kW for a nice sunny day. But all of this doesn't matter, because you are saving money.
Of course, you missed investing in AI companies and would have maybe millions if you had put the money wisely elsewhere.
Right now, charging from home you EV in a practical matter is a folly for the wealthy, not the consumer looking to save a few bucks.

I think if you read my post carefully, you will see that I have said "it's not about the solar, but what it does is unlock the benefits of an off peak tariff" and also "the benefit of solar charging is negligible". I barely use the solar to charge the car. You are correct, it's not that feasible. I charge my car for 4 hrs a night (30kwh in total) for a very cheap rate, 7.5p per kwh. At the same time I also charge the home battery if needed. THIS is where I make my savings.

Trust me I know what I am doing and what I am talking about

Reactions: 3

pss

· #17 · 4 d ago

I did miss that point. In the USA, our particular utility offers an off peak rate of $0.13 per kW if you own an EV. No solar needed. However, I do see your point, sorry I missed that. Did you like my calculations though?

getakey

· #18 · 4 d ago

pss said:
Trying hard not to laugh. 5kW of panels and 8kW of battery won't get you squat (An American word I think?). Look, I sympathize with you, I really do. Your problem is you have a strong desire to save money. Your reality is that you do not know how solar power really works and the kind of system you would need to be able to get any real use to charge a car.
First, cars like the EV6 can charge at a very fast rate using up to 800 volts of DC current. Your home solar system will NOT supply DC current directly to the car. Next, your home solar system of lets say 5kW of panels and 8,000 watts of lithium battery power will need to be couple to an inverter and charge controller or a hybrid inverter with charge controller. In the USA, these will output 120V and 240V. I believe in UK you are outputting 208V? And if you have lets say a 6KW inverter, then the maximum output would be 6,000 watts at 208 volts or just under 29 amps of power. If your batteries are lithium and lets say can safely discharge to 10% capacity each day, then you can get 7000 watts from them, or just about 70 minutes of charging at 208volts and 29 amps. Roughly 21 miles of range a day. But that is only if you start with a full charge on your batteries. And your 5kW of panels is the faceplate rating under ideal circumstances. In reality, count on 4kW and you will need every day 2 hours of ideal sunshine. EVERY DAY just to get 21 miles. If you don't drive your car, then in about 12 days it will be charged up. If it's sunny! And, don't remember, your power is only for your car. Nothing else. Your car has about a 77.9 kW battery capacity and you are giving it a paltry 7kW a day. of course, if you stay home and output all the day's PV to the car, then maybe you could push it to 12 kW for a nice sunny day. But all of this doesn't matter, because you are saving money.
Of course, you missed investing in AI companies and would have maybe millions if you had put the money wisely elsewhere.
Right now, charging from home you EV in a practical matter is a folly for the wealthy, not the consumer looking to save a few bucks.

Not sure you know how solar works. You do not need a battery with solar to charge an EV. I save $6K per year with Solar.

pss

· #19 · 4 d ago

That is true, except a solar inverter that is off grid capable is battery powered, not grid powered. A grid tied inverter does not need a battery. I own both types of systems.

Ian Mac

· #20 · 4 d ago

The problem in the UK is the stiff peak rate on an EV tariff. Mine is 42p peak 7.5p off peak. If you go back 3 years, we were being charged around 15p all the time so a solar system wouldnt be required to mitigate the high peak rate. Now it's almost essential if you want to run an EV cost effectively. Here's my total usage for Feb, March and April for anyone in the UK that finds this useful..

Without the system that would have come to about £750 quid. If I was running my old fossil cars the fuel bill would have been £1050 and the electric bill about £300 for those 3 months.

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