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Tesla Magic Dock, we (EV6 users) won’t be using it

9684 Views 111 Replies 40 Participants Last post by  Ev6fan
Looking at the reports while they work seamlessly, the extremely short magic dock cable means that we and Mach E owners won’t be charging according at least according to normal Tesla parking etiquette.

Yay for choices that actually work! Nay for getting your car keyed because you “BEV’d” a Tesla spot. Maybe v4 will fix it but I would doubt it. Perhaps this was Musk’s plan, open ‘‘em on paper, grab the subsidy bounty and let the war begin.

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Like how the auto industry quickly standardized the location of fuel filler spouts on ICEV? I sure am glad they all decided over the last 110 years that a single design was best and most efficient!
Not sure if you're being ironic, sarcastic, or what. The filler spout on ICEVs is most definitely not standardized on a single location. Most cars have it on the driver side but a non-insignificant number (including 3-4 in my ownership history) have it on the passenger side. Enough so that I do see people trying to shimmy up close to the pump so the hose will reach the right side of the car -- or pull head in on the left side of the pump.

And also enough so that the car tells you which side the filler is on. If you look at the little pump symbol on your fuel gauge, you'll see "<" or ">" next to the pump icon. That tells you which side the filler is on. Pretty handy for a rental car.
Many Costco gas pumps have extra-long hoses that'll reach to the other side of pretty much any car as well as more than a few if not many pickup trucks, but I digress.
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Bunch of Tesla owners already pissed off about Ioniq 5 and ev6 requiring 2 spots. Apparently they feel it is their $$ that paid for the infra and Tesla needs to boot non-Tesla owners. It will be a last resort charging for us (which is totally fine for me). Looks like this is just a pilot in NY and there might be longer cables.
The moment you start paying $49 cents/KWH - YOU ARE A PAYING CUSOMTER TOO - and they can lump it.
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Teslas are 400V cars, E-GMP are using 800V. If you plug in at 400 the rear motor inverter will need to step the power up to 800V. That inverter is capped at 105KW. You don't have this bottleneck if using a station that can deliver 800V. Teslas can handle more because they don't need to use an inverter to step up the voltage. The good news is that the new Gen 4 chargers will be higher voltage.
Yes - the limitation is within our cars. It allows us to use sub-optimal voltage chargers but only to a point.
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Yes - the limitation is within our cars. It allows us to use sub-optimal voltage chargers but only to a point.
Careful now, you might get in trouble around here saying we don’t have the bees knees.
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Can Tesla connector handle
Yes - the limitation is within our cars. It allows us to use sub-optimal voltage chargers but only to a point.
I think Kia engineers tried to future proof the cars as much as they could. Tesla is going to launch the new Gen 4 superchargers with higher voltages and longer cables soonish.
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Careful now, you might get in trouble around here saying we don’t have the bees knees.
Actually, it was a genius solution to the problem without adding any extra weight. We still can get decent charging out of 500 volt chargers.
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Not sure if you're being ironic, sarcastic, or what. The filler spout on ICEVs is most definitely not standardized on a single location. Most cars have it on the driver side but a non-insignificant number (including 3-4 in my ownership history) have it on the passenger side. Enough so that I do see people trying to shimmy up close to the pump so the hose will reach the right side of the car -- or pull head in on the left side of the pump.

And also enough so that the car tells you which side the filler is on. If you look at the little pump symbol on your fuel gauge, you'll see "<" or ">" next to the pump icon. That tells you which side the filler is on. Pretty handy for a rental car.
Pretty sure it was sarcasm, but it's totally relevant.

I wrote a whole thing here trying to justify why randomly placed filler necks make sense on gas cars while homogenized placement makes sense on EVs, but I think I actually convinced myself that EV charging dispensers simply need to be pull-through just like gas stations.

On the gas car: pumps are relatively complicated devices that take up a fair bit of cost and space and can easily serve two vehicles for one installation. I suppose pumps ended up being pull-through early on because cars don't sit there for very long, you ideally want one on either side, and lines often do form even if briefly. Filling up isn't similar to parking, so the excess effort of reversing direction at the end of filling up doesn't make a lot of sense. In order to keep the flow of traffic all the same direction at a gas station, you kind of want a mix of cars with ports on either side, and each row of pumps can serve two lanes. Even if you have a car pointed the wrong way, it's only a modest inconvenience vs a lot of convenience if everyone's going the same direction.

L2 charging is literally parking, and the equipment installation costs aren't prohibitive anyway. You might as well take a normal parking lot and slap a lead on each space, and the leads can be long enough to hit a charge port any which where so it doesn't really matter. Even Tesla's AC charging hardware abides this - they've got a nice long 20ft lead which has the advantage it can hit a backed-in car two spaces over, if the first car finishes charging and a new car wants to take over.

I guess Tesla station designers adopted the same paradigm that charging is like parking, and they could easily get away with it because station design scales very nicely when you have to service vehicles that all look identical and aren't typically towing anything. And then EA followed suit.

I think it makes good sense to blame vehicle designers for not following Tesla's lead and identifying that a de-facto standard would be good for charging infrastructure. But at the same time, nobody's waiting in line at the movie theater for L2 EV charging, so I guess the layout paradigm actually does just shift depending on speed. I think pull-through stations make a lot more sense where vehicles are expected to charge fast and lines may form, not to mention supporting vehicles towing things. In a world where fast charging is pull-through and looks like a gas station, randomly placed ports kind of make a lot of sense.
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Actually, it was a genius solution to the problem without adding any extra weight. We still can get decent charging out of 500 volt chargers.
Totally agree, there are quite a few brilliant innovations on E-GMP platform, the 800V architecture (step up converter and thinner high voltage cables) and the front axle disconnect come to mind but I'm sure there are more.
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Pretty sure it was sarcasm, but it's totally relevant.

I wrote a whole thing here trying to justify why randomly placed filler necks make sense on gas cars while homogenized placement makes sense on EVs, but I think I actually convinced myself that EV charging dispensers simply need to be pull-through just like gas stations.

On the gas car: pumps are relatively complicated devices that take up a fair bit of cost and space and can easily serve two vehicles for one installation. I suppose pumps ended up being pull-through early on because cars don't sit there for very long, you ideally want one on either side, and lines often do form even if briefly. Filling up isn't similar to parking, so the excess effort of reversing direction at the end of filling up doesn't make a lot of sense. In order to keep the flow of traffic all the same direction at a gas station, you kind of want a mix of cars with ports on either side, and each row of pumps can serve two lanes. Even if you have a car pointed the wrong way, it's only a modest inconvenience vs a lot of convenience if everyone's going the same direction.

L2 charging is literally parking, and the equipment installation costs aren't prohibitive anyway. You might as well take a normal parking lot and slap a lead on each space, and the leads can be long enough to hit a charge port any which where so it doesn't really matter. Even Tesla's AC charging hardware abides this - they've got a nice long 20ft lead which has the advantage it can hit a backed-in car two spaces over, if the first car finishes charging and a new car wants to take over.

I guess Tesla station designers adopted the same paradigm that charging is like parking, and they could easily get away with it because station design scales very nicely when you have to service vehicles that all look identical and aren't typically towing anything. And then EA followed suit.

I think it makes good sense to blame vehicle designers for not following Tesla's lead and identifying that a de-facto standard would be good for charging infrastructure. But at the same time, nobody's waiting in line at the movie theater for L2 EV charging, so I guess the layout paradigm actually does just shift depending on speed. I think pull-through stations make a lot more sense where vehicles are expected to charge fast and lines may form, not to mention supporting vehicles towing things. In a world where fast charging is pull-through and looks like a gas station, randomly placed ports kind of make a lot of sense.
Well, one could place the charging stations in the CENTER of parking spaces, and then it wouldn't matter which side of the car the charger was on, as long as it was reasonably near one corner or the other.
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Well, one could place the charging stations in the CENTER of parking spaces, and then it wouldn't matter which side of the car the charger was on, as long as it was reasonably near one corner or the other.
That’s (almost) exactly the EA station design that’s most annoying!

EA used to do this with ABB units that have two leads but only charge one car. I agree if you centered the unit along the long edge of the space, this would work. But because they have to fit two units between the two spaces, they offset them towards the ends. Then the lead for one space can only hit the back-left corner of the car and doesn't stretch to any other corner. If you park in the "wrong" space, of course it works on the opposite side, but then you lock the other space into the same problem. Between the two spaces, any two cars of same port orientation can charge, but not two of opposing orientation.

Of course, they're doing this again with the newer BTC dispensers, but they now have long cables that reach all three closest corners of the car, so it's WAY easier.
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Has there been any proof/evidence that I5/EV6 can charge at superchargers?

Kyle retweeted the other day that they were unable to charge outside of GV60
Has there been any proof/evidence that I5/EV6 can charge at superchargers?

Kyle retweeted the other day that they were unable to charge outside of GV60
This was a post in the facebook group. "My first time charging my EV6 with Tesla Supercharger in Brewster, NY. Simple and easy. CT has a poor charging network and this will be a game changer when more stations are enabled "
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Well, one could place the charging stations in the CENTER of parking spaces, and then it wouldn't matter which side of the car the charger was on, as long as it was reasonably near one corner or the other.
True...but existing US locations were designed with in Tesla in mind...
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This was a post in the facebook group. "My first time charging my EV6 with Tesla Supercharger in Brewster, NY. Simple and easy. CT has a poor charging network and this will be a game changer when more stations are enabled "
Thanks!
Anyone know when they will branch out to different areas or if we will ever be able to use their super chargers they already have everywhere?
From what I was reading in the news not all the Superchargers will receive the magic dock only a portion of them. There are some discussions on Tesla forums that only Superchargers that are not very busy with Teslas will receive it.
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From what I was reading in the news not all the Superchargers will receive the magic dock only a portion of them. There are some discussions on Tesla forums that only Superchargers that are not very busy with Teslas will receive it.
Last numbers I saw were plans for 7,000 "open" superchargers....about half to be retrofits at existing sites and about half (compatible) chargers at new sites. But that's over the next few years...
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From what I was reading in the news not all the Superchargers will receive the magic dock only a portion of them. There are some discussions on Tesla forums that only Superchargers that are not very busy with Teslas will receive it.
though I read at one point the exact opposite from Tesla - only the more important and underserved routes will. Even if the info comes from Tesla directly it’s total hearsay until it happens. The New York stations seem clearly to be pilots based on proximity to the factory. What happens next, I guess we’ll see.
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If even they retrofit only half -- as long as it's half the pods at each location then I'd be happy. I would likely only use Tesla SC as a backup if a non-Tesla charger wasn't close enough or is out of service.
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