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Potato Patoto. Depost Order Fee. Same difference. Market is certainly nuts. I only want to do this once as I didn't want to do the buyback on the Bolt which is a fun car to drive. But the restrictions have spread and made it not very usable IMO so, here I am. Just glad there is another EV that interests me.
Current EV technology isn't reliable enough to buy a new EV this upcoming year and have it last 8-10 years IMO. I even argue 2-3 years might be the normal car exchange lifecycle for an EV.

Bjorn's Ioniq 5 1000km test scares me a little. The charging rate is AMAZING but that car has some battery thermal management issues: no pre-conditioning which means charging is sloooow when the battery is cold and above 50C it throttles power drastically (Bjorn couldn't get more than 66 kW of power) and above 40C it throttle charging rates.

EV6 is built on the same platform. There will be growing pains but I'm sure the car will drive amazing though.

Having literally fought others for the ability to buy a RAV4 Prime and Mach-E... the EV6 will be just as unavailable. Order it the second it opens.
 

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If the chip shortages continue, yes however, there are still a lot of people that aren't on the EV bandwagon or as you say, see KIA as anything more than a budget brand. With the amount of charge points available, most buyer will be those with a place to charge at home overnight. There are move EVs coming out in the US but not many more charge points are being built. The infrastructure bill is stalled and even once signed, how quickly will the builds of new charge points occur? This ordering system is only for the First Edition vehicles, once those are delivered, the rest will be available at dealerships to purchase as normal.
 

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If the chip shortages continue, yes however, there are still a lot of people that aren't on the EV bandwagon or as you say, see KIA as anything more than a budget brand. With the amount of charge points available, most buyer will be those with a place to charge at home overnight. There are move EVs coming out in the US but not many more charge points are being built. The infrastructure bill is stalled and even once signed, how quickly will the builds of new charge points occur? This ordering system is only for the First Edition vehicles, once those are delivered, the rest will be available at dealerships to purchase as normal.
I think I saw something about Hyundai doing an online order deliver to dealerships in the UK. Was curious if they might carry that over to the US and if so if maybe Kia might do the same. Figure I would keep refreshing the page each day and jump at it if that came to fruition.
 

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Current EV technology isn't reliable enough to buy a new EV this upcoming year and have it last 8-10 years IMO. I even argue 2-3 years might be the normal car exchange lifecycle for an EV.

Bjorn's Ioniq 5 1000km test scares me a little. The charging rate is AMAZING but that car has some battery thermal management issues: no pre-conditioning which means charging is sloooow when the battery is cold and above 50C it throttles power drastically (Bjorn couldn't get more than 66 kW of power) and above 40C it throttle charging rates.

EV6 is built on the same platform. There will be growing pains but I'm sure the car will drive amazing though.

Having literally fought others for the ability to buy a RAV4 Prime and Mach-E... the EV6 will be just as unavailable. Order it the second it opens.
I'm really curious about your thoughts on the reliability thing... ICE vehicles have 200 moving parts and EV's roughly 20. 10 year old Nissan Leaf are still running around with original batteries and so are 8 year old Tesla's. We've seen 300k miles or more on model S, many batteries with an 8 year warranty... so what's driving your thoughts?
 

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I'm really curious about your thoughts on the reliability thing... ICE vehicles have 200 moving parts and EV's roughly 20. 10 year old Nissan Leaf are still running around with original batteries and so are 8 year old Tesla's. We've seen 300k miles or more on model S, many batteries with an 8 year warranty... so what's driving your thoughts?
I've had two EVs. My issues have not been reliability, both were rock solid. The issue was that the technology became obsolete after a year or two and my eye started wandering to newer models. Frankly the lower maintenance costs of EVs gave me plenty of cushion so I was not worried about possible breakdowns. My only issues is EVs are heavy enough they tend to chew through tires, and as you buy new ones you need to balance long range tires with long tread life. You can take a pretty good range hit if you are not careful when you replace tires. The other issue is parts, I had a very minor accident in my Chevy Volt and it took forever to get parts (about 3 months). Everyone talks about Tesla's supply chain issues after accidents, but it seems GM at least is not great.

Just my perspective, take it for what it is worth!
 

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I'm really curious about your thoughts on the reliability thing... ICE vehicles have 200 moving parts and EV's roughly 20. 10 year old Nissan Leaf are still running around with original batteries and so are 8 year old Tesla's. We've seen 300k miles or more on model S, many batteries with an 8 year warranty... so what's driving your thoughts?
Those Leafs (without battery cooling) that were super popular and everywhere? I don't see them as often. And what about all those Bolts? The entire lineup had to be recalled due to battery fires. Up to $2B in repairs. Where are all the Fiat 500e(s) that once littered my office parking lot? You use anecdotes. I use anecdotes. In theory, less moving parts is better but EVs are being rushed to market with unreliable technology (see Leaf's lack of battery cooling). I'd have more faith if they all used safer battery tech like LFP but that has limited applications (warm weather climates, less dense energy source).

My own ID.4 glitched and shutdown on day 5. ID.4s have battery coolant pump problems. I expect the next few years to be "interesting" - many manufacturers are still using NMC pouch cells and are only learning about how to properly cool/manage the battery.

EV6 will definitely have battery thermal management issues. Another reviewer on the Ioniq 5 thermal throttling after charging. You might have to wait up to 30minutes while driving to have the battery cooled enough to use it at full power.

 

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Those Leafs (without battery cooling) that were super popular and ....

I'm a Bolt refugee (waiting for my buyback offer from GM). The biggest problem with the battery replacement solution that GM is providing is that if I keep my Bolt and have the battery replaced, it will been at least a year since the first recall was issued, and it could easily be two years, given the number of affected vehicles. When the problem that is being fixed is that the car can burn, has to be parked outside, and has its range reduced by 40%, having to wait years to get it fixed is not a workable solution for many people.

So I am trying to weigh the advantages of new technology vs the advantages of the more proven. Of the three replacements I am considering: The EV6 has the brand new 800V battery system, The Audi Q4 etron has the relatively new "VW" battery platform, and the Tesla has battery technology that has been stable for several years. This would make the Tesla the obvious choice, but I need a hatchback, and the Model Y is only available with dual motors and long range battery, which really pushes up the price, made worse by the current lack of any federal tax rebate for Tesla.....So, I'm considering the Audi and the EV6, both of which have a lot of great innovation. We'll see if the reliability is as strong as the innovation.
 

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I'm a Bolt refugee (waiting for my buyback offer from GM). The biggest problem with the battery replacement solution that GM is providing is that if I keep my Bolt and have the battery replaced, it will been at least a year since the first recall was issued, and it could easily be two years, given the number of affected vehicles. When the problem that is being fixed is that the car can burn, has to be parked outside, and has its range reduced by 40%, having to wait years to get it fixed is not a workable solution for many people.

So I am trying to weigh the advantages of new technology vs the advantages of the more proven. Of the three replacements I am considering: The EV6 has the brand new 800V battery system, The Audi Q4 etron has the relatively new "VW" battery platform, and the Tesla has battery technology that has been stable for several years. This would make the Tesla the obvious choice, but I need a hatchback, and the Model Y is only available with dual motors and long range battery, which really pushes up the price, made worse by the current lack of any federal tax rebate for Tesla.....So, I'm considering the Audi and the EV6, both of which have a lot of great innovation. We'll see if the reliability is as strong as the innovation.
If you are seriously considering the Q4 or EV6... then that's Model Y prices anyhow. You want a stable battery/drivetrain... to me that's only Tesla. You need to suffer with a rougher ride and questionable interior/exterior build quality. It's a tradeoff.

I'm more cutting edge and willing to take a risk on the Mach-E or EV6. Less proven.

My experiment with the ID.4... meh. It's a great ride with some quirks. It was never going to be my "forever EV" - only until I received my EV6/Model Y/Mach-E. Only after a while of ownership do I realize how big this SUV is. I'd love for them to import the ID.3 or bring back the Soul EV.
 

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If you are seriously considering the Q4 or EV6... then that's Model Y prices anyhow.
In the US, the Q4 etron 40 (RWD) MSRP is $5000 less than the current model Y, and that is prior to the $7500 federal tax rebate that the Tesla does not currently qualify for. It seems possible/likely that a similar statement will apply to the EV6 GT single motor price, although we do not have US pricing available yet.
 

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In the US, the Q4 etron 40 (RWD) MSRP is $5000 less than the current model Y, and that is prior to the $7500 federal tax rebate that the Tesla does not currently qualify for. It seems possible/likely that a similar statement will apply to the EV6 GT single motor price, although we do not have US pricing available yet.
correction, the Q4 etron 50 (AWD) MSRP is $5000 less than the current model Y MSRP, and the Q4 etron 40 (RWD) is $11000 less than the current model y MSRP
 

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correction, the Q4 etron 50 (AWD) is $5000 less than the current model Y price, and the Q4 etron 40 (RWD) is $11000 less than the current model y price
I was going to say it was an apples to oranges comparison because of RWD vs. AWD (Model Y)

And yeah.. I do not know about EV6 GT pricing except that the first edition is $58K.

As I've noted in other threads... nobody knows about future EV tax credit changes and whether Tesla will be eligible. Tesla will not open up their US Superchargers without EV subsidies and if that EV bill gets passed it will provide EV charging infrastructure subsidies (hooray we all get access to Superchargers) along with more EV tax credits (of which Tesla will be eligible -> more Teslas everywhere).
 

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... Another reviewer on the Ioniq 5 thermal throttling after charging. ...
I haven't been following this issue, but I ASSUME it only happens after high speed charging? That's certainly a black eye on Hyundai/Kia's claims of having the highest charging rates. If they don't have sufficient cooling to handle it, then I wouldn't expect an easy fix. That's definitely something to be cautious of for someone who is looking at these choices specifically for their fast-charge capabilities. Though I would think for MOST people, who do the vast majority of their charging at home, and much of it overnight, this may not be a serious issue.
 

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I haven't been following this issue, but I ASSUME it only happens after high speed charging? That's certainly a black eye on Hyundai/Kia's claims of having the highest charging rates. If they don't have sufficient cooling to handle it, then I wouldn't expect an easy fix. That's definitely something to be cautious of for someone who is looking at these choices specifically for their fast-charge capabilities. Though I would think for MOST people, who do the vast majority of their charging at home, and much of it overnight, this may not be a serious issue.
Correct. From Bjorn's 1000km video that shows the battery temps and charging rates. It went to 40 or 50C? and then basically throttled everything down (charging). When Bjorn tried hammering the throttle after the charge, it would only allow 66 kW of power (shown on his phone meter). The second video just confirms it.

So yes... at home charging won't be an issue.. .however during a road trip where you DC charge and then drive off on the highway - it becomes a major issue. And Bjorn was in cold Norway/Sweden. Can't imagine the problems in AZ, CA, or FL.
 

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I'm a Bolt refugee (waiting for my buyback offer from GM). The biggest problem with the battery replacement solution that GM is providing is that if I keep my Bolt and have the battery replaced, it will been at least a year since the first recall was issued, and it could easily be two years, given the number of affected vehicles. When the problem that is being fixed is that the car can burn, has to be parked outside, and has its range reduced by 40%, having to wait years to get it fixed is not a workable solution for many people.

So I am trying to weigh the advantages of new technology vs the advantages of the more proven. Of the three replacements I am considering: The EV6 has the brand new 800V battery system, The Audi Q4 etron has the relatively new "VW" battery platform, and the Tesla has battery technology that has been stable for several years. This would make the Tesla the obvious choice, but I need a hatchback, and the Model Y is only available with dual motors and long range battery, which really pushes up the price, made worse by the current lack of any federal tax rebate for Tesla.....So, I'm considering the Audi and the EV6, both of which have a lot of great innovation. We'll see if the reliability is as strong as the innovation.
I'm another Bolt refugee also awaiting a buyback. (Still looking for a sponsoring dealer. They keep ghosting my rep.) Frankly, I would say GM dropped the ball on the recall badly. The last straw for me was the parking restrictions of 50 ft put out by GMs PR person. Now I can barely use the car around Boston. Enough was enough.
If you are seriously considering the Q4 or EV6... then that's Model Y prices anyhow. You want a stable battery/drivetrain... to me that's only Tesla. You need to suffer with a rougher ride and questionable interior/exterior build quality. It's a tradeoff.

I'm more cutting edge and willing to take a risk on the Mach-E or EV6. Less proven.

My experiment with the ID.4... meh. It's a great ride with some quirks. It was never going to be my "forever EV" - only until I received my EV6/Model Y/Mach-E. Only after a while of ownership do I realize how big this SUV is. I'd love for them to import the ID.3 or bring back the Soul EV.
My list puts the EV6 first, Ioniq 5 second and Model Y last. I am waiting to test drive the Model Y, but I have test drove the Model 3 and just didn't feel it drove as nicely as I'd hoped. Maybe the Y will be different. Other than lacking a dash because, reasons (not a deal breaker, but come on....). The only other thing I find a negative with Tesla is their Right to Repair stance and Apple like ecosystem. Very closed walled.
I was going to say it was an apples to oranges comparison because of RWD vs. AWD (Model Y)

And yeah.. I do not know about EV6 GT pricing except that the first edition is $58K.

As I've noted in other threads... nobody knows about future EV tax credit changes and whether Tesla will be eligible. Tesla will not open up their US Superchargers without EV subsidies and if that EV bill gets passed it will provide EV charging infrastructure subsidies (hooray we all get access to Superchargers) along with more EV tax credits (of which Tesla will be eligible -> more Teslas everywhere).
I am thinking it's likely the highest trim AWD EV6 will likely being around $58k and the pure GT model later will be in the low $60ks. Obviously the tax credit/subsidies bill will change the calculus on Tesla and charging. Although we do have the rumor mill in another thread (and on the book of faces) about Kia in talks with Tesla over the V2L tech and Supercharger access. I'm only entertaining this due to the fact that Tesla has said in the past that they would share the network with other makes with some sort of cost sharing agreement. I would see tech sharing being apart of that. Spitballing here and will only believe it when I see an official announcement of course.
 

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Although we do have the rumor mill in another thread (and on the book of faces) about Kia in talks with Tesla over the V2L tech and Supercharger access. I'm only entertaining this due to the fact that Tesla has said in the past that they would share the network with other makes with some sort of cost sharing agreement. I would see tech sharing being apart of that. Spitballing here and will only believe it when I see an official announcement of course.
Don't make your purchases based on pipe dreams and fake sales pitches. VW salespeople told me similar fake stories but I bought my ID.4 knowing I rarely do long 300-400 mile trips so the Supercharger network is just a bonus if it happens (it won't due to how the EV charging business is structured).

IMO, the EV6 is going to be a great car with possibly a major battery thermal issue when DC fast charging at 800V (unsure about 400V).
 

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From Bjorn's 1000km video that shows the battery temps and charging rates. It went to 40 or 50C? ... Can't imagine the problems in AZ, CA, or FL.
They may have to issue an update that more aggressively throttles during charging to avoid the issue. They're providing a 10yr warranty on the batteries, they definitely don't want these things getting repeatedly overheated. Short bursts probably aren't an issue, they could probably still keep the "60 miles of charge in under 5 minutes" claim, but 10-80% in 18 minutes is may end up being HIGHLY weather dependent.
 

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Don't make your purchases based on pipe dreams and fake sales pitches. VW salespeople told me similar fake stories but I bought my ID.4 knowing I rarely do long 300-400 mile trips so the Supercharger network is just a bonus if it happens (it won't due to how the EV charging business is structured).

IMO, the EV6 is going to be a great car with possibly a major battery thermal issue when DC fast charging at 800V (unsure about 400V).
I'm certainly not looking to buy based on rumors. As for thermal issues on 800V charging. We already have a 0-100% DCFC charge and it's profile is different from the Ioniq 5. Curious if that was just a prototype thing or intentional to control thermals (possibly even to keep them at a certain level). I would like to see it again with an OBD2 reader looking at the battery temperature readings during charging to see what's happening.

Ultimately, if the EV6 is still pulling down crazy fast charging times with no/minimal thermal control at the end, well, then cool.
 

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I'm another Bolt refugee also awaiting a buyback. (Still looking for a sponsoring dealer. They keep ghosting my rep.) Frankly, I would say GM dropped the ball on the recall badly. The last straw for me was the parking restrictions of 50 ft put out by GMs PR person. Now I can barely use the car around Boston. Enough was enough.
Best of luck to us both with GM. I'm one month in on the buyback process. I expect another month before I have an offer in hand.

Although we do have the rumor mill in another thread (and on the book of faces) about Kia in talks with Tesla over the V2L tech and Supercharger access.
Musk/Tesla have announced so many things and then changed them, who knows if this will ever come to pass.

I would like to see Tesla also have the tax credit become available again for them, but even if it does, currently the least expensive model Y still requires dual motors and long range battery. If this remains the case, then I will be choosing between the EV6 and the Q4 etron.
 

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Best of luck to us both with GM. I'm one month in on the buyback process. I expect another month before I have an offer in hand.


Musk/Tesla have announced so many things and then changed them, who knows if this will ever come to pass.

I would like to see Tesla also have the tax credit become available again for them, but even if it does, currently the least expensive model Y still requires dual motors and long range battery. If this remains the case, then I will be choosing between the EV6 and the Q4 etron.
Agreed on the luck, also one month in. I take it the parking "ban" was the last straw for your as well.

Agreed on Musk/Tesla. That said, for the most part what Musk announces comes to fruition. Just ignore his timelines that he puts out because those are bogus. That said, I have a feeling you live where there is no snow. Myself, I want AWD and am willing to pay for it.
 

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Agreed on the luck, also one month in. I take it the parking "ban" was the last straw for your as well.
Having to park the car outside all the time, and wait who knows how many months until the batteries are replaced, was what caused me to initiate the buyback. The range reduction does not impact me very much.

Agreed on Musk/Tesla. That said, for the most part what Musk announces comes to fruition. Just ignore his timelines that he puts out because those are bogus. That said, I have a feeling you live where there is no snow. Myself, I want AWD and am willing to pay for it.
I live in NC, and the replacement car will be mostly used as my around town daily driver. My wife's car is AWD, and I have a truck that has 4WD, so if we need to travel in snow we have those other two vehicles we can use.
 
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